I post this with hesitance... just thought I'd pass it along since it relates to the previous discussion on China before everything blew up and went to hell.

It's an article from The Economist: http://www.economist.com/node/21528984?f...ottoningon

Bullet points:
- China and India are going to catch up, but it's going to be painful and will not happen in a straight line.
- Emerging markets catching up to the West will actually probably be a good thing for western economies.
- West has a history of innovation which the east does not. Although the larger and more diverse the global economy becomes, the less important innovation is.

All in all, I thought it was interesting. Feel free to reply, but NO FLAMING OR RACIST COMMENTS. You've been warned.

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(09-25-2011 08:10 PM)Mark Wrote:  Bullet points:
- China and India are going to catch up, but it's going to be painful and will not happen in a straight line.
- Emerging markets catching up to the West will actually probably be a good thing for western economies.
- West has a history of innovation which the east does not. Although the larger and more diverse the global economy becomes, the less important innovation is.

What I am worried about is the rise of liberal ideals that are leading to the decline of the west.

The west rose through mercilessness and cutthroat competition. Now after second and third wave feminism, environmentalism and race advocacy pushed to the extreme, the west has begun diverting its efforts from staying on top to a very PC: "Respect everything and everyone. We are all equals. We have to make sure EVERYONE (except for white men because they are privileged bastards) is happy."

(09-26-2011 03:49 AM)Matt C Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 08:10 PM)Mark Wrote:  Bullet points:
- China and India are going to catch up, but it's going to be painful and will not happen in a straight line.
- Emerging markets catching up to the West will actually probably be a good thing for western economies.
- West has a history of innovation which the east does not. Although the larger and more diverse the global economy becomes, the less important innovation is.

What I am worried about is the rise of liberal ideals that are leading to the decline of the west.

The west rose through mercilessness and cutthroat competition. Now after second and third wave feminism, environmentalism and race advocacy pushed to the extreme, the west has begun diverting its efforts from staying on top to a very PC: "Respect everything and everyone. We are all equals. We have to make sure EVERYONE (except for white men because they are privileged bastards) is happy."

I sense a troll

(09-26-2011 03:49 AM)Matt C Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 08:10 PM)Mark Wrote:  Bullet points:
- China and India are going to catch up, but it's going to be painful and will not happen in a straight line.
- Emerging markets catching up to the West will actually probably be a good thing for western economies.
- West has a history of innovation which the east does not. Although the larger and more diverse the global economy becomes, the less important innovation is.

What I am worried about is the rise of liberal ideals that are leading to the decline of the west.

The west rose through mercilessness and cutthroat competition. Now after second and third wave feminism, environmentalism and race advocacy pushed to the extreme, the west has begun diverting its efforts from staying on top to a very PC: "Respect everything and everyone. We are all equals. We have to make sure EVERYONE (except for white men because they are privileged bastards) is happy."

Are you fucking stupid?

Watch the documentary "Inside Job", then come back here and post.

(09-26-2011 03:49 AM)Matt C Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 08:10 PM)Mark Wrote:  Bullet points:
- China and India are going to catch up, but it's going to be painful and will not happen in a straight line.
- Emerging markets catching up to the West will actually probably be a good thing for western economies.
- West has a history of innovation which the east does not. Although the larger and more diverse the global economy becomes, the less important innovation is.

What I am worried about is the rise of liberal ideals that are leading to the decline of the west.

The west rose through mercilessness and cutthroat competition. Now after second and third wave feminism, environmentalism and race advocacy pushed to the extreme, the west has begun diverting its efforts from staying on top to a very PC: "Respect everything and everyone. We are all equals. We have to make sure EVERYONE (except for white men because they are privileged bastards) is happy."

I'm going to assume that you're German or Scandinavian Matt.

Because it's a totally different story in the US right now. The culture is shifting way to the right, and not in a good way either.

You have to look at this from a broader historical perspective.

There have been economic and political links between China and the West since the Roman Times. Han China was an empire at least as mighty as the Imperium Romanum.

During the middle ages, and even in early modern times, some economic historians say until 1800, China was politically and economically stronger than any European state.

The power dynamic between China and the West shifted greatly because of the Opium Wars (1840s/50s), the Taiping Revolution (20 million dead), the great hunger of 1878/1898, the Boxer uprising (1900) etc.

That the Chinese are "coming back" since Deng Xiaoping's reforms is nothing new. One just needs to put it in a broader perspective.

(09-26-2011 05:28 AM)Mark Wrote:  

(09-26-2011 03:49 AM)Matt C Wrote:  

(09-25-2011 08:10 PM)Mark Wrote:  Bullet points:
- China and India are going to catch up, but it's going to be painful and will not happen in a straight line.
- Emerging markets catching up to the West will actually probably be a good thing for western economies.
- West has a history of innovation which the east does not. Although the larger and more diverse the global economy becomes, the less important innovation is.

What I am worried about is the rise of liberal ideals that are leading to the decline of the west.

The west rose through mercilessness and cutthroat competition. Now after second and third wave feminism, environmentalism and race advocacy pushed to the extreme, the west has begun diverting its efforts from staying on top to a very PC: "Respect everything and everyone. We are all equals. We have to make sure EVERYONE (except for white men because they are privileged bastards) is happy."

I'm going to assume that you're German or Scandinavian Matt.

Because it's a totally different story in the US right now. The culture is shifting way to the right, and not in a good way either.

No I live in the U.S. I am just going off of what I hear other students are saying in my political science class. The forecast of the U.S. points towards a very PC world.

Quote:The culture is shifting way to the right, and not in a good way either.

In what ways is it not good? I would like to see some specifics, over "The Tea Partiers are racist, sexist, religious fanatics!"


Also, I don't mind China rising. If it can kick the West's ass into gear, I'm all for it. Competition breeds excellence.

(09-26-2011 03:49 AM)Matt C Wrote:  What I am worried about is the rise of liberal ideals that are leading to the decline of the west.

The west rose through mercilessness and cutthroat competition. Now after second and third wave feminism, environmentalism and race advocacy pushed to the extreme, the west has begun diverting its efforts from staying on top to a very PC: "Respect everything and everyone. We are all equals. We have to make sure EVERYONE (except for white men because they are privileged bastards) is happy."

The western Industrial Revolution occurred because a happy opportunity (readily accessible coal) met a nascent industrializing England. All the other European states played catchup to Britain, some more successfully than others.


On another note, I think Mark is right. The fact that the US is even talking about candidates like Bachmann and Perry is a horrible sign of things to come. I speculate that most of Europe is laughing at us.

Matt C: If this was 1992, I would be inclined to agree with you. But PC'ism and its over-extensions have very much died off, although they're still a nuisance now and then.

I would say there have been a lot of troubling cultural emergences since 9/11 in the US -- including racial profiling, anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim behavior, anti-constitutional policing behavior, open discrimination. I mean, we just had a gay servicemember come out on national television and he was booed for it. This is a guy in Iraq fighting for us.

I agree that not everyone should be pampered. And hearing feminists pull the "you're saying that because I'm a woman" card still pisses me off now and then (but luckily they usually get called out for it these days). But culturally, we've moved quite a bit to the right in the past 10 years, starting with the Tea Partyers and Republicans and the Democrats have quietly followed.

Ideally, this country stands for equal opportunity and equal protection for all of its citizens. ALL of its citizens, regardless of where they come from or who they are. That's what makes America special.

But the fact that a significant portion of the current population does not want to send immigrant children to college, does not want to fund inner city schools, does not want to give unemployed access to health care, does not want gay/lesbians to have equal rights, does not want Muslims to be able to worship where they want, is OK with policies based on racial profiling, is OK with innocent men being put to death, is OK with illegal searches and seizures (4th amendment), and supports torture as a form of interrogation. It's all pretty disturbing.

The whole PC, "everybody needs to be happy" thing is a nuisance and I agree, they should be shut up when they complain about it. But systematically fucking over your own population and ideals all in the name of "Freedom" is abhorrent and indefensible.

Five years ago, the rest of the world was laughing... Now, I think they're more stunned and confused.

Oh, and don't even get me started on economic policies. This shithole we're in is not a coincidence.