I just want to be good enough to initially attract and sustain enjoyable relationships with women. That's what I aim for, personally. That's the goal for me. I want to look back at my life and say to myself, "She was a joy. I'm glad I did that." Things like that. Is that not what some of you fellows aim for?

Surely you guys can relate? Maybe I'm not just analyzing enough here haha.

(08-25-2011 03:59 AM)Leo Wrote:  

(08-25-2011 12:22 AM)crazyhorse Wrote:  If you want to move ahead in life and want to have more then the average person. You're going to have to do more and be more than the average person. It is as simply as that.

Yeah, but WHY you do it? Why you want it so badly? That's my point. Let's talk about David DeAngelo, like a lot of guys that started to learn about dating, DD was one of my first sources of knowledge about how to deal with women. His Double Your Dating book gave me some success but not a lot, his Cocky and Funny worked well, but let me in the middle of the road with girls, I could feel something was missing. I remember in his initials videos how he used to show his frustrations about dating women (hey!, we all can relate), how he was dumped from another guy that "gets it" and I can tell he showed his anger toward women as well (hey! we all can relate, right?).
That's what I'm talking about, are we here because we want to "get even" with women? When I read some LRs I can feel some anger, some kind of: I fucked you bitch! The validation trap is obvious and well.... the "shallow" look for the hot girl. I know the vast majority of guys in this forum are in their early 20s, so; thinking about sex all the time is normal. I think we have to know the real motivation we have to dedicate so much effort to get good with women. In my own case I have to deal with my anxiety disorder, mommy issues and some anger toward women. I want to have some power in the dating world, that's another reason why I'm here, I don't want to be another AFC tha begs to be with a woman, that kind of guy that pursue a woman for months or even years just to get laid because he has no options. I think at least that last point is healthy.

I've read about some millionares that were so afraid of poverty that they did whatever they could to have money. You see? Their real motivation was fear. That's what I'm talking about.

I can totally relate to this. The reason why I'm doing it is the same: fear.

that's why I'm so focused on becoming stronger everyday and doing things that are difficult. Why? Because when I do these things I know that I'm moving away from how it used to be and I know that I'm gaining more control over myself.

If a day goes by wasted I start to get scared and I really start pushing myself. It really blows my mind to see how people can go trough life without being more ambitious.

You can actually see this in a lot of areas of my life: fitness, social ife, now it's school. I just want to be someone of significance I guess and I do this by proving to myself that I'm capable of doing things that before I wasn't capable of doing.

Fear? I don't know (you). Sure, overcoming fear is crucial. But does fear motivate you to do anything let alone to improve yourself? No, unless you are running away from a lion or bear. Crazyhorse, I think you are not afraid of not achieving but happier when you achieve something. So, Jon's train of thought is more accurate: do we seek external validation or do we want to be more content?

(08-25-2011 07:48 AM)saito Wrote:  Fear? I don't know (you). Sure, overcoming fear is crucial. But does fear motivate you to do anything let alone to improve yourself? No, unless you are running away from a lion or bear. Crazyhorse, I think you are not afraid of not achieving but happier when you achieve something. So, Jon's train of thought is more accurate: do we seek external validation or do we want to be more content?

f.e. a person who is afraid of losing either he will either be a) extremely competitive or b) not participate at all. Do you catch my drift?

I'm just afraid of returning to the old situation, that's it. The more I can get away from it, the better I tend to feel. It's more of an internal feeling of "god I really need to keep moving forward". I really can't explain it better. Since it also 1 a.m. here haha

Yeah, but then fear does not motivate you to do something but rather to avoid something, e.g. being broke, being dead, being alone or being sexually frustrated. You do realize that living a life based on avoiding a situation is bad focus in the long run, right? I would frame it this way: accept fear as a neccessary evil, but focus on something that has a higher value to you than fear, e.g. loving your life, being proud of yourself, sex, love etc.

Leo Wrote:Yeah, but WHY you do it? Why you want it so badly? That's my point. Let's talk about David DeAngelo, like a lot of guys that started to learn about dating, DD was one of my first sources of knowledge about how to deal with women. His Double Your Dating book gave me some success but not a lot, his Cocky and Funny worked well, but let me in the middle of the road with girls, I could feel something was missing. I remember in his initials videos how he used to show his frustrations about dating women (hey!, we all can relate), how he was dumped from another guy that "gets it" and I can tell he showed his anger toward women as well (hey! we all can relate, right?).
That's what I'm talking about, are we here because we want to "get even" with women? When I read some LRs I can feel some anger, some kind of: I fucked you bitch! The validation trap is obvious and well.... the "shallow" look for the hot girl. I know the vast majority of guys in this forum are in their early 20s, so; thinking about sex all the time is normal. I think we have to know the real motivation we have to dedicate so much effort to get good with women. In my own case I have to deal with my anxiety disorder, mommy issues and some anger toward women.

I totally can relate to what you're saying. I grew up with strong social anxiety and it took me ongoing therapy sessions this spring and summer to uncover the full emotional damage from my mom, my childhood and even early adult life. Well, I hope I've hit the bottom. This shit can be painful, seeing how much of my life I've given away, for "nothing" I may have done; those beliefs were instilled in me as a young child. Of course this is bullshit, had I born in the wrong country and I could be suffering poverty and even famine. I've got more than most. We just don't appreciate what we've got, right?

The key is to accept what you've become and do the best with what you've been handed. That's easier said than done. I though I had the "take personal responsibility" section pretty much down when I noticed myself a bit bitter to David D, RSD or Carlos X for ripping No more mr. nice man and never having sent me there - they probably did, I just didn't paid attention. Or for making it sound so complicated. But would I otherwise buy into this if someone said, this shit is easy? Probably not. My ex told me countless times. Friends too. Yet, having some degree of success, I now tell my friends exactly that: This is simple, just be yourself. No more cockyness or being mr. aloof - I've also started with David D's material and got some success with it...

I noticed that on a previous comment you wrote suffering? Is this the way you see this process? Can you see how that is pushing you back and preventing you from moving forward? What would take for you to enjoy this?

(08-25-2011 05:51 AM)crazyhorse Wrote:  I can totally relate to this. The reason why I'm doing it is the same: fear.

that's why I'm so focused on becoming stronger everyday and doing things that are difficult. Why? Because when I do these things I know that I'm moving away from how it used to be and I know that I'm gaining more control over myself.

If a day goes by wasted I start to get scared and I really start pushing myself. It really blows my mind to see how people can go trough life without being more ambitious.

You can actually see this in a lot of areas of my life: fitness, social ife, now it's school. I just want to be someone of significance I guess and I do this by proving to myself that I'm capable of doing things that before I wasn't capable of doing.

Or maybe you don't accept yourself the way you are. At least I know it is true in my case. That's why I used the example of the couple of nerds holding hands on the street. Even though they belong to a group that is HIGHLY rejected by society (you can even see it in movies) they looked happy, loving each other and accepting each other. But here we are looking for the model, the stripper, the hot girl, etc, etc. I think we are overcompensating what we couldn't do when we were socially inept. I remember I was watching a video form RSD and there was an asian instructor (I don't remember his name) talking about how he used to be shy, reading books in the bathroom stall, no girls, no dates, etc, etc. But now he has the power to date the BLONDES girls from LA, the girls that he always dreamt about. I'd say the girls as fake as he is, because that guy is a facade. I KNOW how painful it is to don't get attention from women because you are shy, softspoken, etc, etc. But do we really have to change for them? Again I go back to the couple of nerds, they seemed so happy, they ddin't care about the rest of the world.

I remember I was datig a woman that used to have a BF that gave EVERYTHING to her: money, car, a house, etc. And she wanted all that stuff because she suffered so much when she was poor and young, she couldn't buy the stuff she wanted, she was rejected for some people, etc, etc. She hated so much to be poor that now she wanted a guy to financially support her (I didn't do it, of course). But can you see the analogy?

Yeah, it's ok to improve ourselves but until what point? When it's gonna be enough? What are we trying to prove? Why we have to be able to date models, strippers, cheerladers, young girls, etc.?

I belong to another forum and a guy metioned that he has been in 170 first dates in his life. Who needs to be in 170 firts dates in his life? Why this obssesion of analyzing every interaction with a girl? Trying to find the "perfect" way to get into her pants. I really think our motives to make so much effort to get good with women are: frustration, hatred, validation. Otherwise why would you dedicate so much effort to do this? Well, yeah, we as men are always thinking about sex but how about other areas of our life. And the inner game programs that I've seen talk about the aspects you have to improve to have even more sex, no why you are looking for this life style. I think we should start answering that question. What the hell are we trying to prove?

Well, if you are dealing with the emotional damage that your mom caused in you maybe you know how hard it is to face it. And that's usually something that only you can know how painful it is because it's based in your UNIQUE relationship with her. At least that's my case. My mom caused a huge emotional damage in me and it's really hard to get over it. Although I have to admit that my level of resilience has increased a little bit after so much effort.
My motivation to be here is that one, to be able to relate to women without the ghost of my mom in my back. I hope I can do it some day, otherwise I'm gonna have to live like that, period.

At least I'm glad that when I open up I can find other guys that can understand my situation. Thanks for that.

For example, greenlight in this thread.
http://www.practicalpickup.com/forum/sho...ght=tucker

(08-25-2011 07:54 PM)Ravla Wrote:  

Leo Wrote:Yeah, but WHY you do it? Why you want it so badly? That's my point. Let's talk about David DeAngelo, like a lot of guys that started to learn about dating, DD was one of my first sources of knowledge about how to deal with women. His Double Your Dating book gave me some success but not a lot, his Cocky and Funny worked well, but let me in the middle of the road with girls, I could feel something was missing. I remember in his initials videos how he used to show his frustrations about dating women (hey!, we all can relate), how he was dumped from another guy that "gets it" and I can tell he showed his anger toward women as well (hey! we all can relate, right?).
That's what I'm talking about, are we here because we want to "get even" with women? When I read some LRs I can feel some anger, some kind of: I fucked you bitch! The validation trap is obvious and well.... the "shallow" look for the hot girl. I know the vast majority of guys in this forum are in their early 20s, so; thinking about sex all the time is normal. I think we have to know the real motivation we have to dedicate so much effort to get good with women. In my own case I have to deal with my anxiety disorder, mommy issues and some anger toward women.

I totally can relate to what you're saying. I grew up with strong social anxiety and it took me ongoing therapy sessions this spring and summer to uncover the full emotional damage from my mom, my childhood and even early adult life. Well, I hope I've hit the bottom. This shit can be painful, seeing how much of my life I've given away, for "nothing" I may have done; those beliefs were instilled in me as a young child. Of course this is bullshit, had I born in the wrong country and I could be suffering poverty and even famine. I've got more than most. We just don't appreciate what we've got, right?

The key is to accept what you've become and do the best with what you've been handed. That's easier said than done. I though I had the "take personal responsibility" section pretty much down when I noticed myself a bit bitter to David D, RSD or Carlos X for ripping No more mr. nice man and never having sent me there - they probably did, I just didn't paid attention. Or for making it sound so complicated. But would I otherwise buy into this if someone said, this shit is easy? Probably not. My ex told me countless times. Friends too. Yet, having some degree of success, I now tell my friends exactly that: This is simple, just be yourself. No more cockyness or being mr. aloof - I've also started with David D's material and got some success with it...

I noticed that on a previous comment you wrote suffering? Is this the way you see this process? Can you see how that is pushing you back and preventing you from moving forward? What would take for you to enjoy this?

Because I hated the way it was and because I wasn't living up to my full potential. I had more going for myself then I was showing and I hated that. Some people will never make that decision, but I did.

That couple of nerds might be rejected by society, but perhaps they have very high paying IT jobs. Who knows maybe deep down they want to change certain aspects of their life? Perhaps once they looked up, to the happy nerds that you are describing and now they are one of them? Ever tought of that?

In my quest for achievement I've never felt I was suffering. Never! Sure it is challenging but hey I'm heading in the right direction. I'm sorry but I don't want to be a coach potatoe and let life go by. Everything that I've done f.e. excersising, dressing better, working harder, study more, public speaking.... I loved it! It always showed me new things about myself, that I never knew I had.

if you look at this as suffering, then it's your perspective not mine. You define it as compensating well that's you're definition, not mine. I call it "change", time to live up to your potential.

I already gave you the reason WHY I'm doing it. I just love getting better.

To be honest I think you need to determine your own standards and stick by those. You sound like those guys who only want to date a stripper just to impress their friends.

Second reason (more superficial), it makes life easier and more enjoyable in the long run!

Leo I get your point but the 170 first dates seems kinda lame to me as well. But maybe that's his standard. Compare it to a millionaire or a guy who has a decent salary and just gets by. That's why I said determine your OWN standards.