This is a very detailed breakdown of a failed 2 min approach. I'm writing it as much to crystallize my thoughts as to possibly help other newbies. If you are into natural game or some such, you will not enjoy this.

I was at a street food festival. I was scoping out good targets. Mainly hot women who were alone. I firmly believe that hot women will be much easier to pickup than less hot ones. Why? Because they put in so much effort into their appearance because they want to be validated for it by a non-needy male. This is a recurring theme. Every unconscious action by every person is a reflection of what they believe and/or want to be validated for.

A two set was standing around chatting. Both these girls must have been around 18-20. Of the two, one was quite cute (notated as C) while the other was meh (notated as M). I walked past them and opened over the shoulder.

S: Do you know how long this thing goes on? (Very relaxed, disinterested BL)
M: Until 8.
S: Wow! Quite long eh? That's good. I got to take a break from the all food I've eaten. (Body rock as if I'm leaving)
M: Yeah, we're just chilling. We've eaten so much.

I spy C getting attracted. She is starting to show the signs. But I'm too into my head to process this correctly. Coming up with conversation material in the beginning when they are not hooked is hard.

S: Yeah. I must have gained like 150 pounds. Did you check out the creme brulee cart?
M: No. We haven't.
S: It was amazing.
M: What flavor was it?
S: Nutella strawberry.
M: OMG! That sounds so good
S: Yeah. It was so good that as I was eating the first one, I walked back to get another one. It was really, really good.

5 sec conversational lull.

S: What is your name?

M is less than impressed with this question. She takes her own sweet time contemplating if it should be answered. Social pressure forces her to answer.

M: My name is M.

C doesn't even wait for M to complete her introduction.

C: I am C.
S: I am S.

S: Cool. You guys from round here?
M: No. Not really
S: Where are you from? (Wrong question given M had already shown that she didn't trust me yet by taking very long to give me her name. Unfortunately, lack of prepared material forces you to throw out flailing life support questions).

M gets uncomfortable. She doesn't answer. I help her out.

S: Far away. Me too. (Body rock out and starting to back turn)
C: We are from X. (She noticed that I was going to leave if the question went unanswered).
S: (Turning back and smiling) Not really. I actually live in the city.

I then completely back turn them. This is the point where I fucked up. I lost internal equilibrium when she refused to answer. I was angry that she thought that I'll do something to here. Basically, I took it personally. This is a very common pattern in my seductions. I don't have enough empathy and emotional control when a girl doesn't give me compliance. I need to have more empathy. This was a young girl who was probably afraid of giving away information about herself. In my mind I was thinking, "Please girl. You really think I'm going to stalk you. I don't give a fuck". Wrong! I needed to assuage her fears. The body rock was a good move. But the total back turn was wrong.

Different people have different patterns. So people may chase more. Other people may behave as I did and get angry. Both are poor behaviors. Have enough internal equilibrium to understand why they are behaving the way they are and give an appropriate response.

Positives:
1) Went out of the house. This is actually quite hard for me, because I generally prefer being at home.
2) Approached the chicks

Inner game improvements:
1) Have emotional control and empathy

Outer game improvements:
1) Have a few stock routines for the beginning of an interaction so that I don't have to come up with conversational material and react in real time to them. BTW, I wouldn't have needed much to talk with C. She was attracted and if I had been solely conversing with her, I wouldn't have needed much scripted material.

2) I don't understand why I didn't talk to C much. She was definitely attracted. I think a lot of it has to do with not being completely present in the interaction.

Outer game: Do you know cold reading contrary to questions like where are you from?

Hey Shadow,

so here is my advice.

1) Focus on Outer Game, not on this Inner Game empathy-stuff etc. Because that's not where your problem is.

2) Your main problem is: you lack conversational skills. So what can you do? Work with mini-coldreads (like Saito said), hooks, hoops, and try to form a multiple thread early. Handling these conversational tools successfully is essential.

3) Daygame works in two steps. The first one, that's where you've failed in this interaction, is to make the girl invest strongly into the interaction. Get her to the point where she really wants to keep the conversation going (the second step is personal/emotional connection, but don't think about the second before having passed the first one well). The reason for the arkward situation after having asked for her name is that you have done it before she got invested.

How do you get her invested: use the verbal tools mentioned above + relaxed, comfortable body-language, voice tonality (that makes HER comfortable, too).

4) You don't hook with the opener, you hook with the transition. Yours is really not good. Work on that. Advise number one again: mini-coldread.

Good stuff General G. I'm definitely thinking of having some scripted material prepared for early on. You are right. I lack conversational skills if the girl doesn't give me anything. I need to work on that.

For reference, could you either post/PM me your typical gameplan? Thanks a lot, mate. I'd like to start scripting some material and a reference would be very helpful.

(08-21-2011 08:52 PM)shadow Wrote:  For reference, could you either post/PM me your typical gameplan? Thanks a lot, mate. I'd like to start scripting some material and a reference would be very helpful.

My gameplan: http://www.practicalpickup.com/forum/sho...hp?tid=305

But please keep in mind that this gameplan only reflects what works for myself. I don’t know how well it works for others, since everybody has his own strengths/weaknesses etc.

If you are from Germany, then I would add the advise to look for "small talk improvement classes" at your local Volkshochschule (I don't know whether there is an equivalent to this in the USA). I profited much from this.

From your gameplan, I surmise that your first few minutes are quite similar in every interaction. What I was looking for was a sample showing how you use the four conversational tools you mentioned. It will be great if you can post/PM a few snippets.

I can post an example of using cold reads to hook a conversation. This is from night game, however.

Me: Hey, I'm jon.
Her: Oh hi I'm (name)
Me: You look like you're from the west coast
Her: I'm from NY, what makes you think I'm from the west coast?
Me: You don't look like you are from new york at all.
Her: I grew up in brooklyn, what do you mean I don't look like I'm from new york.
Me: You smile too much. I grew up on the Upper west side. Most of us natives are scowlers.
Her: Where'd you go to school?

We chatted for five minutes then she gave me her number before I could even ask for it because her friends were calling her over.

(08-22-2011 05:42 AM)shadow Wrote:  From your gameplan, I surmise that your first few minutes are quite similar in every interaction. What I was looking for was a sample showing how you use the four conversational tools you mentioned. It will be great if you can post/PM a few snippets.

Ok, Jon has already given an example how to use mini-coldreads as a transition away from the opener.

Use another mini-coldread later in the interaction, to add more starting points for the multiple thread.

Small verbal hoops: Girls LOVE guessing games. Let's take Jon's example: Mini-coldread on her origin. After the girl has told me where she is from we exchange 2 or 3 sentences more about her hometown/homecountry (which is an opportunity to DHV with a short travel story or to playfully tease her). Then I say: "A friend of mine recently said it's so obvious where I'm from, true?" Then she jumps through the hoop and starts guessing. (If she doesn't do this immediately, I say: "Come on! It's easy.") Some girls really get enthusiastic at this point. Everybody loves guessing games. And after you know where she's from and she knows about your origin, there is a smooth path pointing to comfort/connection topics.

If she asks you something (age, country of origin, profession) let her guess. She will jump through the hoop, because it's fun. It makes her open up, and it makes HER (not you) invest. But don't play more than 1-2 guessing games with her, otherwise the talk gets weird.

Hooks: That's easy. The more information she delivers on herself, the better you can contribute interesting stuff yourself (=DHV) or playfully tease her. Ask interesting questions related to her person. Again, this naturally leads to comfort/connection.

Multiple thread: You two already know where each of you is from -> this gives you starting points for travelling stories, childhood stories (about the places you grew up), descriptions how you feel when in a landscape you love (you can emote her with that stuff). Etc. You can "construct" an interaction from the beginning on in a way that it flows "naturally" between 4 or 5 topics you want to DHV with or use as a connection-bridge to her emotions.

As a general rule: It's good to tell her such things. But it's even better when you can bait her (subtly) to tell HER own stories about these topics.

Thanks Jon and general g. I'm in the midst of designing a few scripts for group sets/unresponsive girls. This will be helpful.