(08-07-2011 07:15 PM)Jon Wrote:  

(08-07-2011 10:01 AM)Schmechti Wrote:  You hear a lot of girls saying they prefer nice guys but as soon as they say this one it's done with their logical brain and not with their emotional brain. When it comes to attraction it's often different.

Are you saying this because you find that acting like an asshole has given you good results or are you saying this because you read it?

I've read a lot of times that what girls are saying and what they are attracted to are two different things (logical vs. emotional). I don't have much experience about that, but I'm always cautious when a girl tells me or someone else that she thinks "you are nice". Maybe she's attracted to you, maybe not.

To be honest I'm not the type of guy who can act like an asshole around women. However, I see a lot of assholes having attractive girlfriends but like I said those guys are likely not marriage material. On the other side a lot of needy nice guys (who we call AFCs) also have girlfriends but often they are not so attractive.

However, I agree with Mark that being a non-needy nice guy seems to be the best way to go but it also seems like not all girls are into these kind of guys. On the other side I may be wrong

Definitely see what your saying Schmechti, but as guys I think we should be asking ourselves if we REALLY want those kinds of woman. All the assholes I know may have hot girlfriends, but they, at least to me, don't seem like the kind of woman i'd want to spend time with. I don't know about you, but my main reason for wanting to improve and getting into all this was to bring attractive AND confident, warm, and affectionate woman into my life, rather than needy ones with self-esteem issues.

You're right about the logical vs emotional thing Schmechti. But you are wrong. All girls ARE into non-needy guys. Neediness is the attraction killer in men. Being nice/asshole is something else entirely.

As much as I think this is correct, I also do feel that being nice isn't always the most attractive.

For me I've experienced this the other way; with the last few girls I've seen. The last one was sooo nice. Very sweet and affectionate etc. But in the end, it almost feels too nice. Its a good thing on some level, but for me I dont feel 'wow, this girl is hot/sexy.' So being 'nice' at least from my perspective looking at girls, is still a good thing I guess, but its not the hottest personality possible.

Another girl I was seeing had a lot more 'fire' and 'sassiness' to her. In other words, she wasn't all that nice. She was very challenging and wouldn't put up with any bullshit. She wouldn't fall for any of your shit. She was an independent women with a strong mind. That was a lot more sexy to me.

I think thats the problem with being too 'nice' perhaps, maybe there isnt a enough challenge. For me, a sexy girl is a girl who has a bit more of an edge to her, not an extremely nice girl. And maybe its the same for them looking at us.

We really have to pull a line between two things: being genuinely nice to people, friendly from the heart and fake, superficial nice-guy behaviour to be liked by others.

When a charismatic person gives you a simple compliment, he gives it to make you feel good and it does. When a needy person gives you a compliment, he does it be liked by you and you think "what a cheesy loser."

You can be a challenge and still be nice.

The problem here is semantics. Being "nice" can mean anything from doing favors for people to being well-intentioned. It means different things for everyone. And I think the point of the thread is that being nice is not ALWAYS unattractive as has been taught in the past. Just because something is not unattractive does not mean it's always attractive. Don't make that fallacy.

Eh, I dont understand the whole point of nice vs asshole.

I practice the law of fairness, in a sense, if i dont think the girl will do things for me, there's little reason i should do those things for the girls.

I think the law of fairness is the ultimate way to live your life. Because it goes a long quite well of taos theory of balance. Being too nice or too much of an asshole is swinging too much in one side or the other.

I have my compassionate side where i help girls without expectation in return. However, I have my side where I let her know if she's being a retarded person, just like anyone else. I think this is the best way to have a balance perspective.

Funny this is coming up. Rob Judge wrote about it here:

http://archive.aweber.com/4egpotential/9...London.htm

Yeah, it's funny that on the one hand I agree with almost every individual thing Rob said, but i wouldn't characterize that behavior as "not being nice." I think treating somebody like an equal is very different from not being nice. I also think it's funny that he says not buying a girl dinner is "not being nice" whereas most women I have talked to say they hate doing dinner on the first date - too formal, they are self conscious about how much to order since they know the guy might pay, you can't bail if things turn south, you have to be self conscious about looking attractive while eating with somebody, etc. Also, just picking a place instead of pulling the "so what do you want to do." Many women appreciate the decisiveness of just handling arrangements.

I actually think a lot of the behavior that guys put under the rubric are being nice is behavior that they would find irritating if somebody else did it to them. Like saying you like the same things as the girl - if you are hanging out with somebody and they always agreed with everything you say, you would have no respect for them. It's not a matter of nice or not nice, it's a matter of telegraphing that you don't feel like you're on the other person's level.

DD



Why The Women You REALLY Want
Don't Want YOU

***Reader Question***

David,

I have met a girl at my college. I am into her, knowing that she is not attracted to me. I am really wanting to know what I'm doing wrong. She knows I like her but I'm shy and lost for ideas. I haven't bought her anything or taken her out bcuz like u said it shows weakness and also they don't like it. I see her when I can, whenever we both have free time, but her schedule is pretty full between work college and church. Advice and pointers would be nice thanks.

J. M.

***David D. Responds***

J.M., the day I stop getting questions like this is the day I can finally retire.

Not holding my breath...

Thing is though, I was once where you are... thinking I was a nice, sensitive guy who had to sit around "wishing" and "wanting" women who had no interest in me (outside of being a friend) because I was too shy, not good-looking enough, not rich enough, etc.

But then, after watching the guys who were actually successful with women, I quickly realized that I had it all wrong. Instead of thinking that I was a nice, sensitive guy that needed to be richer or better-looking to get women, I realized what I really needed was to become the confident, in-control kind of guy that women really want.

Period.

You see... this is why women often date "jerks" and guys who are emotionally unavailable and don't date us "nice guys" who would do anything for them. It's because, as my ultimate law for success with women goes... attraction isn't a choice. In other words, women do not sit down and make a list of the qualities that a particular guy has, then think it over for a few days, then decide whether or not to feel attraction.

Just doesn't happen.

Attraction is either there or it isn't, and it happens in an instant. Plus, to mess up a "nice" guy's thinking even more, it happens for all kinds of "illogical" reasons... reasons that even a woman who is feeling it can't usually describe.

So what's the answer here?

The answer here is realizing that... most likely... many of the "nice" things you're doing while you're around women you feel attracted to (and who consider you "just a friend") are actually ruining your chances with them.

You must understand that you sometimes have to do things that seem to be "inconsiderate" in order to give a woman what she really wants... which is act like a man who is in control of himself, the situation, and often her. You have to stop doing the nice, sensitive things that say "I'm a Wussy" -- because these are the very things that torpedo any chance you have of success with the women you really want.

So raise your right hand, and repeat after me...

"I will stop being a Wussy around women."

"I will stop being a Wussy around women."

"I will stop being a Wussy around women."

Instead, start doing the things that really work with women...

Be calm and confident.

Act Cocky & Funny.

Bust on women and give them a hard time.

Lead the way, don't follow.

Now, of course, one of the problems that a lot of guys run into is "putting together" all these different personality traits is that don't seem to go together. Many of the things women say they want in a man seem to conflict with each other. Women say that they want guys who sensitive... but always go for the "bad boy".

What's a guy to do?

Well, here's what I did:

I gave up my old ways of thinking and learned what really works.

Not what sounds like it might work.

Not what should work in a "logical" world.

And not what is supposed to work according to all those touchy-feely self-help books (...and what your mommy taught you).

I spent several years trying to escape all the bad advice (that never got real results) and figure out what "works", and I started out with a huge disadvantage. And I'm not talking about a disadvantage of my plain looks. I'm talking about a disadvantage of all this bad advice. This bad "programming."

You see, J.M., just like you, I had this pre-determined "map" in my mind of how I thought I should behave around women... and it turned out to be the wrong map. A total game- killer. And the most frustrating part was that when I did the things that should work, they actually made women even less into me!

It was like the whole world wasn't working right... I would be so sweet, sensitive and nice, and then woman would not even want to talk to me.

I would call often and share my feelings with her, and she would still fall for the rude jerk who could care less about treating her well.

Well, I stuck with it anyway. I kept trying to figure out what works... even though the things I was doing weren't working. And the magic "breakthrough" came only after I started making friends with and watching these guys who were very successful with women... then putting what I knew about psychology and behavior together with the new stuff I was learning "in the field".

And what I discovered was literally shocking to me.

I remember slapping myself on the forehead, shaking my noggin, and laughing to myself as I watched my new friends who were good with women do things that just plain shouldn't work... but that DID work.

I know I'm running on here, J.M., but forgive me. This key to everything I teach, so I definitelty want to emphasize one last point in here:

You can have the smoothest "pick up lines" in the world... do "nice" things for women all day long... but if you don't understand ATTRACTION, these things will backfire and wind up pushing women away from you.

That's why, even though "jerks" and "bad boys" don't treat women well, it doesn't mean that women don't feel attraction for them. In fact, women report feeling incredibly attracted to these kinds of men... so powerfully, in fact, that they can't control their feelings... and that's what I want to start happening for you, ASAP.

Now it's up to you to get an education (through my success-proven free newsletters and program materials or elsewhere) on how to be that "bad boy" in exactly the right way. So get on it.