I make the point in my book that it's about being needy versus non-needy. People who are insensitive and act like assholes tend to be less needy than the average nice guy. But you don't have to be an asshole to get your lack of neediness across.

Hell yeah for nice people getting laid!

I don't doubt that the fake alpha types get laid like gangbusters - 'asshole game' does work on some women for sure. But the women it attracts are probably not going to be women you want to date - the big problem is that so many PUAs extrapolate from their sample set to decide that all women everywhere are high maintenance cheating gold digging drama loving whores.

This is probably the biggest paradigm shift that drew me to this site to honest. Just out of curiosity Mark, do you find it's a common theme for guys who start out as nice AND needy guys to do a complete 180 and turn into a raging dickhead? I know I did, and I almost find it's like, part of the process to go to that extreme before you swing back to the middle of the pendulum. Just wondering if you've found this with other guys you work with or have met?

Interesting topic.

I think that being a nice guy today is better for any woman than it was in ancient times because our lifestyle has changed. Things like money, being friendly and honest have become more important. However, due to evolutional reasons many girls are still more attracted to bad boys, especially when they are younger than 25. When they become older and know what they want, they start to prefer nice guys who are better marriage material.

Schmechti - it goes beyond that. If a woman is already attracted to you, acting like a decent person makes you better one night stand material - because she knows you wont do anything fucked up.

(08-07-2011 02:41 AM)matty Wrote:  This is probably the biggest paradigm shift that drew me to this site to honest. Just out of curiosity Mark, do you find it's a common theme for guys who start out as nice AND needy guys to do a complete 180 and turn into a raging dickhead? I know I did, and I almost find it's like, part of the process to go to that extreme before you swing back to the middle of the pendulum. Just wondering if you've found this with other guys you work with or have met?

Yeah, a good portion of them do. I did.

It's hard to say if it's a necessary part of the process or not. Part of me thinks that these guys do it because they need to get out a lot of anger and resentment they've been holding back, and learn to assert themselves and confront others. But what worries me is when they never come back from it.

God its nice to hear this.

I have always felt there was something weird and somewhat misconstrued about the whole 'nice guys finish last thing'. I mean we have covered this topic before the actual word nice is being misused. A real nice guy is a real nice guy.

Genuine, sociable, amiable, reliable, honest, nice. Thats a nice guy. A 'nice' guy in the other sense is the needy/outcome dependent kind of guy that tries to frame his problems as being unfair due to him being so 'nice'.

I just think, people like me the most for being exactly who I am and what Im about. Im not a harcore alpha guy who is really beefy and ultra confident. But I dont need to be. I get by perfectly fine being normal and nice.

My main problem is laziness when it comes to not picking up oppurtinities and following up with girls. Maybe I dont find the ones in question attractive enough. Or maybe subconsciously I am anxious about sexual performance and this is externalized as 'I cant be assed'. Or maybe I am truly not that bothered. Maybe my sex drive just isnt that high at the moment and I just don't need it.

Id like to want to be more motivated to not pass up opportunities with women but I just really cba a lot of the time.

You hear a lot of girls saying they prefer nice guys but as soon as they say this one it's done with their logical brain and not with their emotional brain. When it comes to attraction it's often different.

(08-07-2011 09:26 AM)007 Wrote:  God its nice to hear this.

Seems like this quote is the general reaction to this thread and i for one couldn't be happier. I've been following this stuff for the past 4 year; i was in high school though, and something deep down told me old pua mantra just couldn't be right; this was before social circle game became popular. --- On an aside i remember reading someone's post about NLP and instead of saying happiness, you should say hap-Penis to get the girl subconsciously thinking about sex; glad i never tried that.

On to this thread though i remember one day i helped some girl, i think i tutored her in math or something but i wasn't attracted to her, and she said thanks so much your honestly the nicest guy ever, when i refused payment. I honestly remember cringing inside thinking damn i'm displaying beta tendencies. But thanks to all you just showing that you can still be nice and get girls. Its a refreshing and more enjoyable alternative.

(08-07-2011 10:01 AM)Schmechti Wrote:  You hear a lot of girls saying they prefer nice guys but as soon as they say this one it's done with their logical brain and not with their emotional brain. When it comes to attraction it's often different.

Are you saying this because you find that acting like an asshole has given you good results or are you saying this because you read it?