(05-28-2011 07:52 AM)Jon Wrote:  I think Mark's point was, and it makes sense, that it takes roughly thirty before you end up having succeeded in a wide enough variety of situations.

Yes... typically guys with 30 or less lays get most of them from a similar situation with a similar type of girl... or they're not actually aware of why they're getting laid -- they think it's their ingenious theories and techniques, but really it's that they're well-connected in a college town or something. Adam Lyons is actually a great example of this... He probably legitimately thought he had revolutionary PUA ideas, when really the nightclub promoter culture in London is pretty unique. And his success can't be replicated in the majority of cities and for the majority of guys.

That doesn't mean that he doesn't have good things to say or that he hasn't learned a lot since then by teaching. But guys with less than 30 lays have a tendency to over-estimate how much they know and how much they've experienced. They don't see much of a "big picture" yet. It's one thing to have a guy get 20 lays in his hometown over the course of two years. But then you fly him across the country, tell him to work with guys who are 50 years old, have completely different personalities and goals, and suddenly he's not such an expert anymore.

I started coaching at around 30-35 lays and honestly I look at some of the stuff I wrote and said back then and shake my head. I meant well, but I vastly over-estimated how much I knew and how much I controlled what was going on. Guys at 10-20 lays are even worse about over-estimating themselves.

I know the whole lay count thing is lame... but it's the best benchmark for pick up experience we have. My perception of women and how to pick them up was dramatically different at lay 10 as it was at lay 30, and lay 30 was dramatically different than it was at lay 50, which was different than it is now. Every girl I'm with is unique and presents me with an infinite range of new experiences and possibilities. Each time my assumptions are challenged and each time my perspective changes a bit. I learn something.

With that said, when it comes to the basics, it really doesn't take a whole lot of experience to be able to teach someone to approach and crack a few jokes. Pretty much anyone with 6-12 months of field experience can do that. And honestly, most companies in this industry are that: glorified approach coaches.

The reasons your perspective changed between 30 lays and 50 lays isn't because you had sex with 20 more girls, it's because of how many more interactions you had by that point. You don't become a little bit more enlightened every time you stick your dick in a girl. If you're using it as a method of keeping track of time/pickup experience gained .. okay, sure, whatever. But it has everything to do with the amount of interactions with women you've had, not the amount of times you've got your dick wet.

Because sex is the thing that is actually a challenge. Getting a girl's number is meaningless, it's relatively easy to make out, fool around, and if you aren't getting laid, you aren't really testing yourself. Anyway, it's also the point of picking up.

Dave, you're right to an extent... but we're not talking about "interaction experience" or "interaction advice." Like Jon said, we're talking about pick up advice. Which means getting a girl you didn't know yesterday to want to have sex with you today. Honestly, the first 10-30 minutes of interactions are the most predictable parts... it's what comes in the second, third and fourth hours with a girl where things get complicated and very unique.

Again, this is why guys with few lays can teach others to approach just fine. But when it comes to really understanding what drives attraction and what drives sexual interest, they usually have very skewed or misinformed opinions.

(05-29-2011 11:56 AM)Mark Wrote:  Dave, you're right to an extent... but we're not talking about "interaction experience" or "interaction advice." Like Jon said, we're talking about pick up advice. Which means getting a girl you didn't know yesterday to want to have sex with you today.

You're right. But getting her to want to have sex with you doesn't mean you have to sleep with her. Just sayin'

I mean, I just got a blowjob on the beach 30 minutes ago, and this girl definitely wanted to do me. Doesn't mean I have to stick it in her. Still chalking up more exp. though

Yep, but the thing is. You actually never know if a girl is willing to have sex with you until you try to have sex. There have been plenty of girls who I was sure would have sex with me, until they didn't. So, you can have a count of women who would have had sex with you, but it's a meaningless number

next guy on the list: Johnny Soporno

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(05-29-2011 06:57 PM)crazyhorse Wrote:  next guy on the list: Johnny Soporno

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Sounds like you´re ordering a Mafia-Killer....hahahah

(05-29-2011 02:15 PM)DaveyDrama Wrote:  You're right. But getting her to want to have sex with you doesn't mean you have to sleep with her. Just sayin'

I mean, I just got a blowjob on the beach 30 minutes ago, and this girl definitely wanted to do me. Doesn't mean I have to stick it in her. Still chalking up more exp. though

Well, yeah... I guess... I mean, the purpose here is to have sex with them, so you might as well use that as the benchmark. As soon as you get into, "Well, I could have done this, and potentially, I could have been with these girls..." then you're no longer actually talking about first-hand experience. You're back to talking about ideas and theories.

Women's behavior post-sex and managing sexual relationships with different women, particularly over the long-term, will teach you far more about them. I once said that two years with my last girlfriend taught me as much than every every other approach and hook up I've ever had in the community, and I meant it. And I know what you're going to say, "I still manage relationships with girls without having sex with them." It's not the same at all. It just isn't.

(05-29-2011 06:57 PM)crazyhorse Wrote:  next guy on the list: Johnny Soporno

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I think this is a guy that common sense can just weed out. Watch his stuff online.