(05-18-2011 05:14 AM)Mark Wrote:  What I find funny is he's still operating in the paradigm of what "works" and what doesn't "work" on a girl like this. It's not about what works... it's about recognizing that sex with a dumb racist cunt is probably not worth compromising your own values, no matter how hot she is...

The irony of course, is the second that you do tell a girl like this that she's a dumb racist cunt, 9 times out of 10 she ends up wanting to fuck you even more. But hey... I guess I'm just a keyboard jockey.

I was also very surprised when he turned the convo in theory and praxis, because I never mentioned something about technics, but just that he forget his dignity in this case. So either he is not thinking about things like that or he just didn´t want to understand me.

Hahaha. Yes, you have first to fieldtest that, because until then it´s just a "theoretical after school special"

(05-18-2011 05:18 AM)equilibrium Wrote:  

(05-18-2011 04:15 AM)8_ball Wrote:  Please, this has nothing to do with KJing or mental masturbation. This about having your values and morals holding to them, even if you want get laid. You said yourself, that you thought: "White girl, please", meaning that you know she is talking completly racist bullshit. Still you escalated. By doing this you set imo the girl above your values (besides being incongruent). Yes, you got laid. But have you been honest to yourself? Imo, no."

Since he didn't specify or define his own values, I'm not sure that he violated them.

Lots of people would place "dispute people who say racist things about your heritage" above "get laid" in their hierarchy of values. I consider that reasonable. However, JT never claimed that his values were in this order. Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.

Not saying he's right or wrong here - just that I didn't see him going against his own value system.

How much of a failed, desparate human being can you be, if getting laid is more important to you then to be not disciminated against?

Like I said, I would have EXCUSED his lay if he was a newbie who usually don´t get laid at all. It would have been still weak, but I would have excused it. But this guy is famous dating coach, getting laid regurarly (hopefully).

Btw, sex is not a valuembut a human instict. Values are something like morals, higher "behaviour guidelines" like respect, honesty and so on. They are usually always above human instincts.

(05-18-2011 05:22 AM)Jon Wrote:  But the point is

1) people take "inner game" advice from validation-junkies like that guy, and
2) he doesn't even seem to realize that there's another system of values 8_ball might even have.

Yeah, true. I can see where someone might make the decision he made out of a combination of desire to get laid and determining that he could ignore / bypass what she said. Not "wrong", in my personal opinion, but kind of shallow and objectifying - at that point you're basically writing off the girl's brain and just going for her body.

And for some guys (8_ball), that would be enough to turn attraction down to zero no matter how hot she was on the outside.

(05-18-2011 05:30 AM)Mark Wrote:  

(05-18-2011 05:18 AM)equilibrium Wrote:  Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it?

When you prioritize getting laid over everything else in your life, you end up with... well, dumb racist girls.

To his credit, he does say ejecting if you don't want to put up with it is fine.

Yeah, for him to claim that his way was the only way would be pretty egregious. But he does seem to view taking the "high road" and protesting the racism as merely an ineffective pickup tactic, rather than a morally valuable stance that he couldn't take since he wanted to get laid that night.

(05-18-2011 05:35 AM)Mark Wrote:  I guess this is what you were getting at equilibrium. And I guess this is me throwing him a bone. Assuming he was going for the ONS (which I imagine he was), then I guess it's fine... I think he needs to make that clear though, because I don't think newbies recognize the difference in process between gaming for a ONS and gaming for a girlfriend.

Yeah, that's what I meant - once she had said what she said, she was obviously off the "girlfriend list" if JT had any self respect, but if she was down for a night of physical fun, ignore the brain and focus on the body...

Not saying this is a great moral stance or anything, but there are lots of grey areas in this game.

(05-18-2011 05:30 AM)Mark Wrote:  

(05-18-2011 05:18 AM)equilibrium Wrote:  Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.

To his credit, he does say ejecting if you don't want to put up with it is fine.

What I don´t understand is that ejecting would be fine in his opinion, but after ignoring it ( "Instead you either completely ignore it and eject, which is completely valid if you don't want to be around it, or ignore and and respond with a positive action and push through"). Calling her out on it without starting a debate seems not to be an option for him

(05-18-2011 05:35 AM)Mark Wrote:  Hah... this is weird, the more I think about this, the more I'm sympathizing with JT, which is weird, because my first reaction was pretty bad as well.

But if I was talking to a girl who I knew I had absolutely no interest in past a one night stand, I could see myself glossing over something like this. It's a choose your battles type thing. If all you want is to bang her and then never call her, then it makes sense to just ignore it. If you're screening for anything beyond a ONS though, it's pretty stupid to not say anything.

There was actually a very hot girl a few months ago in Texas who was young (19) and as dumb as a door stop. But I just ignored all the stupid stuff she said and ended up going home with her. I knew I was never going to talk to her again, and that's what made me decide it was worth it. I just wanted to bang her.

I guess this is what you were getting at equilibrium. And I guess this is me throwing him a bone. Assuming he was going for the ONS (which I imagine he was), then I guess it's fine... I think he needs to make that clear though, because I don't think newbies recognize the difference in process between gaming for a ONS and gaming for a girlfriend.

I think there is a BIG difference between a dumb, ignorant girl and a girl who is being racist against you. With the dumb girl you spend a few hours, secretly shaking your head, but you never ignore your values. You just wasting some time in order to have some sexy time; there´s nothing wrong about that.

And that it was just a ONS is not an excuse for that, you still lose some dignity (like Jon pointed out), since you still put sex with her over your values.

True. I guess if it offends you enough, then no sex is worth it. I guess it just didn't offend him enough, or the sex was that much more important. Either way, take what you will.

Now that I think about it, there are a handful of things women have said in the past that were just so egregiously offensive that I couldn't stomach to be around them.

(05-18-2011 05:30 AM)Mark Wrote:  

(05-18-2011 05:18 AM)equilibrium Wrote:  Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it?

When you prioritize getting laid over everything else in your life, you end up with... well, dumb racist girls.

To his credit, he does say ejecting if you don't want to put up with it is fine.

Lets also focus on the reason for this desperate attitude. Its a lack of self-confidence and authentic character. All he does is playing a role to get approved by other people.

Can't believe I missed this whole thread so far. Where have I been?

I've been in this situation several times. Attracted to, or in the process of, picking up a girl and heard something come out of her mouth that was so offensive, I wondered if I could let it slide.

There are 2 ways to look at this, which have obviously been discussed previously in the thread, but I still feel like I need to address them:

Viewpoint #1: She is a "dumb racist cunt" and needs to be put in her place.
or
Viewpoint #2: I'm just going to fuck & chuck her anyway, what does it matter?

Personally, I'm the kind of guy who can't shut the fuck up to save his life. I've started fights at work, at family get-togethers, on the street, with people who have blurted out igorant/racist comments. I have many Arab friends, not to mention blacks & native indians. Racism is probably the one thing i REFUSE to tolerate, even if it's not directed at me personally (As it was in this case).

Obviously everyone's morals and values are different. Mine are probably different from 99% of the guys on this forum. Hell, I don't even have SEX with girls. I try to stay as close to my Christian beliefs as possible. But in my opinion, if you don't stand up for your values/beliefs, you may as well not have any.

In this situation, I would have told her exactly what I thought of her (to clear my conscience) and try to take her home anyway. Like Mark said, often times when you put them in their place, it turns them on even more.

(05-19-2011 02:19 AM)DaveyDrama Wrote:  Hell, I don't even have SEX with girls.

What?

(05-19-2011 04:13 AM)Happy Wrote:  

(05-19-2011 02:19 AM)DaveyDrama Wrote:  Hell, I don't even have SEX with girls.

What?

Seriously. lol.

(05-19-2011 02:19 AM)DaveyDrama Wrote:  Obviously everyone's morals and values are different. Mine are probably different from 99% of the guys on this forum. Hell, I don't even have SEX with girls. I try to stay as close to my Christian beliefs as possible.

Player who doesnt have sex. At least you are consistent with your values and beliefs.

Obviously, its none of my business, but I think you were better off, if you focused on what has the best consequences for you and the people affected by your actions instead of following 2000 year old contradictory texts. Those beliefs rather harm you than help you.