I'm not sure exactly what I'm getting at here, but I have some general thoughts Id like to share.

Lets say your walking down a street, out in public etc. You see a girl you think is below or slightly below your own attractiveness. Then you know your not punching above your weight right? You firstly feel that a) going over to chat to her isn't going to be a big problem, because you think somewhat objectively that you are basically more attractive then her. b) I guess the paradox is that you may not be as attracted her.

So anyway, you know your punching below your weight, so your probably likely to have success as your not going to have aa, and shes going to feel (probably) more interested/excited as a guy that is more attractive is showing interest in her.

If a girl around your attractiveness is walking down the same street its going to be harder to judge how its going to go. The main reason being is that attraction is to some degree subjective. There are of course ugly and hot, but when someone of a similar attractiveness is walking past its hard to judge - because she may feel subjectively that she is way more attractive then you, or subjectively she may feel less attractive to you.

Either way, you have a relative chance for some kind of success.

So now, lets say you think of yourself as a 7 of out ten. You see a stunning 9 walk down the streets(i know, grades are limiting etc but for arguments sake). You see this 9 and approach her. This time, you know you probably have way less chance then the girl less then attractive as you and the girl as attractive as you(as close as we one can objectively say). This time you know that your chances are of course way lower. And your LOGIC says - OK I could try, but its way less likely. There a tons of more attractive guys that she has access to etc. Of course we still have an element of subjectivity here. Perhaps she has low self esteem/thinks shes less attractive then she is etc.

But what Im getting at here is; isn't this all about basic logic to a large degree? Even if your an ugly small guy - if you are pretty sure that the girl walking past you is 10times worse then you - then you know your going to have a good chance.

So I sometimes feel like pick up is all about overriding logic. Its not that we are all lacking confidence or anything else. Its that to a large degree, most of us want the top percentile of girls yet most of us are in the average percentile of attractiveness. So we have to bypass our logic(as logic dictates that someone of lesser attractiveness is less likely to hook up with someone with higher attractiveness) to approach these kind of women.

We have to approach women enough till we get to a point where the logic changes from 'im average, shes hot, so why bother' to no longer having these feelings due to desensitization.

But I still wander. Sure, any one can game. Any guy can approach women. But hot women?!

There is a big difference. I dont want to put a negative spin on this all but im willing to bet - an average looking guy can approach a lot in one week, and he WILL have a lot more success. But the successes he has were within his existing percentile range (could be way lower of course or slightly higher). But I doubt that out of all of those women he approaches - that he has any increased success with the top percentile of women.

I guess hypothetically we can still say that if an average looking guy does approach a lot of women in a week - he's likely to have some success with slightly more attractive women then him - or maybe even some top percentile women that feel unattractive etc. But thats a poor rate of success either way.

I'm also basing my logic here on attraction purely in terms of physical looks here, which I believe is essentially the fundamental. And especially in terms of cold approaches, day or night.

What do people reckon?

Gamings easy. Its the quality of chicks that is the real issue.

(05-11-2011 09:26 AM)007 Wrote:  I'm not sure exactly what I'm getting at here, but I have some general thoughts Id like to share.

Lets say your walking down a street, out in public etc. You see a girl you think is below or slightly below your own attractiveness. Then you know your not punching above your weight right? You firstly feel that a) going over to chat to her isn't going to be a big problem, because you think somewhat objectively that you are basically more attractive then her. b) I guess the paradox is that you may not be as attracted her.

So anyway, you know your punching below your weight, so your probably likely to have success as your not going to have aa, and shes going to feel (probably) more interested/excited as a guy that is more attractive is showing interest in her.

If a girl around your attractiveness is walking down the same street its going to be harder to judge how its going to go. The main reason being is that attraction is to some degree subjective. There are of course ugly and hot, but when someone of a similar attractiveness is walking past its hard to judge - because she may feel subjectively that she is way more attractive then you, or subjectively she may feel less attractive to you.

Either way, you have a relative chance for some kind of success.

So now, lets say you think of yourself as a 7 of out ten. You see a stunning 9 walk down the streets(i know, grades are limiting etc but for arguments sake). You see this 9 and approach her. This time, you know you probably have way less chance then the girl less then attractive as you and the girl as attractive as you(as close as we one can objectively say). This time you know that your chances are of course way lower. And your LOGIC says - OK I could try, but its way less likely. There a tons of more attractive guys that she has access to etc. Of course we still have an element of subjectivity here. Perhaps she has low self esteem/thinks shes less attractive then she is etc.

But what Im getting at here is; isn't this all about basic logic to a large degree? Even if your an ugly small guy - if you are pretty sure that the girl walking past you is 10times worse then you - then you know your going to have a good chance.

So I sometimes feel like pick up is all about overriding logic. Its not that we are all lacking confidence or anything else. Its that to a large degree, most of us want the top percentile of girls yet most of us are in the average percentile of attractiveness. So we have to bypass our logic(as logic dictates that someone of lesser attractiveness is less likely to hook up with someone with higher attractiveness) to approach these kind of women.

We have to approach women enough till we get to a point where the logic changes from 'im average, shes hot, so why bother' to no longer having these feelings due to desensitization.

But I still wander. Sure, any one can game. Any guy can approach women. But hot women?!

There is a big difference. I dont want to put a negative spin on this all but im willing to bet - an average looking guy can approach a lot in one week, and he WILL have a lot more success. But the successes he has were within his existing percentile range (could be way lower of course or slightly higher). But I doubt that out of all of those women he approaches - that he has any increased success with the top percentile of women.

I guess hypothetically we can still say that if an average looking guy does approach a lot of women in a week - he's likely to have some success with slightly more attractive women then him - or maybe even some top percentile women that feel unattractive etc. But thats a poor rate of success either way.

I'm also basing my logic here on attraction purely in terms of physical looks here, which I believe is essentially the fundamental. And especially in terms of cold approaches, day or night.

What do people reckon?

Gamings easy. Its the quality of chicks that is the real issue.

Great post and very valid.

I hear you. The game is all tied to the physical I think. Yeah you can be funny, dress well and have a good fashion sense but if the chick (an 8 or 9) does not like your face and overall look, its not going to go anywhere. Most gurus would say "inner game man...inner game" when in reality you can be as confident as possible when approaching and the 9 turns you down because you are not her type. The all say its a mind set. I think not. I used to think that and it got me as far as I am now, really in limbo. Its about how to get through that code, how to make you the 6 or 7 be adequate in the eyes of the 9 or 10 if one is lucky enough. These chicks can have any guy they can have so competition is fierce.

Yeah its about cracking that code. I have read tons of stuff, been to bootcamps and been thru the PUA ringer. Have not found the answer if there is one. Its not Mystery Method, its not juggler, its not cocky &funny.

My friend the question is how?

(05-11-2011 09:44 AM)JtheZipper Wrote:  Great post and very valid.

I hear you. The game is all tied to the physical I think. Yeah you can be funny, dress well and have a good fashion sense but if the chick (an 8 or 9) does not like your face and overall look, its not going to go anywhere. Most gurus would say "inner game man...inner game" when in reality you can be as confident as possible when approaching and the 9 turns you down because you are not her type. The all say its a mind set. I think not. I used to think that and it got me as far as I am now, really in limbo. Its about how to get through that code, how to make you the 6 or 7 be adequate in the eyes of the 9 or 10 if one is lucky enough. These chicks can have any guy they can have so competition is fierce.

Yeah its about cracking that code. I have read tons of stuff, been to bootcamps and been thru the PUA ringer. Have not found the answer if there is one. Its not Mystery Method, its not juggler, its not cocky &funny.

My friend the question is how?

Yeah. I think to be honest, I have already way over analyzed in my initial post, but hell, the point definitely still stands.

I think despite the fact that physical attraction is still a fundamental - and that you can (generally) only do so much to improve the way you look, and despite the fact that this does mean that when it comes to day game our attractiveness is what counts to a large degree, I don't think this should hold anybody down.

If someone has the motivation and energy to approach 250 girls cold approach during the day I respect them, and they're going to get some success, even if it isnt with the best looking women.

Whilst attraction does dictate a lot, life is an enigma. The whole world is. And thats my game philosophy. Just go out there and be yourself. Let biology and the world do the rest.

However at the same time, do what you can to improve your attractiveness. Nothing is set in stone. Lets say for arguments sake im a 7 out of 10. This doesnt mean that a 9 is out of the picture. Sure it means its less likely, but nothing is stopping you from approaching that 9 that knows shes gods gift. I guess its quite a raw, perhaps objectifying way to think about things, to think in such raw evolutionary terms, but hey.

I think there is a lot to be said about being grateful for what we can get. Be grateful that being in the average percentile range gives us higher likelyhoods with other average percentiles. It could be a lot worse. But at the same time, god, we are so inbuilt with this evolutionary hardwire to mate with the hottest women possible. Its completley biological. Whether your quasimodo or brad pitt, we all have the same wiring.

I guess we need to have a sense of realism at the end of the day. Sure, try your luck with the hotter girls, but accept the average girls to. Ive wasted 3 years of uni (in terms of game) because my standards have been so high. I've slept with two girls, fingered a few more, and pulled a lot more. But the fact that I havent slept with more girls, or had LTR's is mainly due high standards.

And I guess this is a big question that is interesting to ponder. Are you going to always chase the hottest tail and be constantly losing out? Or are you going to go for the more average tail that is way easier but way less satisfying. At least in initial terms.

I guess as we get older..we settle for less. We accept shit. We get older and want a partner and even from like 18-22 I have realized my standards lowering. Well, the type of girl I would fuck drunk as hell has lowered. But gf material is still pretty much the same and thats why im still single. lol.

There are two options for you, Keyboard Jockey:

a) Spam PUA forums with mental masturbation.

b) Get out and cold approach women. Approach 1.000 women (no exaggeration) before you judge whether Pick Up works or not.

Look at my thread "Direct Streetgame from Cold Approach to Instant Date" here on this forum, so you can inform yourself about the cold approach/instant date success rate of a short ugly guy who exclusively approaches attractive girls.

On my old blog, I basically explained it thus:

- There are two types of attraction: passive and active
- Passive are things you are: looks, style, fashion, social proof, etc.
- Active are things you do: escalate, tease, charisma, etc.

More passive you have, the less active you need. The less passive you have the more active you need. Being ugly or short doesn't mean you can't get girls, it means it will just be harder. Being good-looking doesn't mean that you will get every girl without trying, it just means you don't have to try as much.

And yes, you are mentally masturbating...

No, what is illogical is deciding you cannot approach a woman who is too attractive because you think she will reject you. The only thing that happens if you approach a woman who isn't into you is she doesn't sleep with you. If you don't approach, she doesn't sleep with you. You will not be harmed by being rejected. Even if there's a 99% chance the girl won't sleep with you, it's still worth doing because you have a 1% chance of getting laid vs a 0% chance of getting laid. Not approaching women is entirely an emotional reaction to social pressure. It is not logical. It is emotional.

Also - as far as saying there's only so much you can do with looks - please answer the following questions

do you work out 6 days per week?
Have you gone to the dentist and said "make my teeth look awesome" and gotten whitening, adjustments, or whatever is needed?
Do your clothes fit well?
Are your clothes fashionable?
Do you have a good haircut?
Is your body fat below 15%?
Are you making sure to handle any skin problems you might have?
Do you shower daily?
Do you shower thoroughly?
Are your fingernails clean?

if the answer is no to any of the above questions than stop complaining about looks as something you can't help.

I've got an idea... go out and approach the hottest girls you can find, and see what happens.

I know it's a revolutionary idea, and doesn't involve posting hundreds of words on forums, but it might actually, you know, teach you something.