(05-02-2011 06:50 AM)Mark Wrote:  I like how everybody who sees my pictures either says one of the following things:

- He's really good-looking, that's how he gets laid.
- He's looks fucking lame, he obviously doesn't get laid.

I will say though, that since I got in pretty good shape last year, and cleaned up my wardrobe, I would consider myself "good looking" now. I get far more compliments and eye contact than I used to. Although, I'd say my results are more or less the same. I just don't work as hard anymore.

Perhaps the results you get right now is enough to satisfy you. Had you work harder(go out more) like you were back when you're somewhat more fat, you might even get more results?

Anyway, I'm not going to blame you like sleazy because part of the three fundamental you wrote was that you must increase your lifestyle to get higher quality women(looks is part of lifestyle).

It's bullshit company like rsd who keep preaching looks doesnt matter. Brad of rsd can get the EXACT same result as Roger of rsd.

Looks definitely matter... guys just over-estimate how much they matter. NOT being ugly is more important than being good-looking. And just about every single guy is capable of not being ugly with some work.

And yes, if I went out 3-4 nights a week like I used to, I'd probably be up to my neck in girls. I just don't really care anymore.

I read an inteview from some PUA one time where sleazy was described as an only average looking, tall and skinny guy.

(05-02-2011 05:50 AM)Mark Wrote:  You also have to realize that for every one of these stories there are probably many nights where he went out and nothing eventful happened or there were a bunch of sloppy, dull hook ups that aren't really noteworthy.

Actually there are some stories in it, where he failed. I found the book to be quite useful, especially, because it directly begins where most PU-coaching stops - right before getting her into the bedroom. And from those where he failed you actually can learn more - because he knows why he failed.

Regarding the "looks" topic: I would be interested in hearing from you if you have the impression, that many people you taught suffer from having too high expectations regarding the women they want to meet. I recently read an article about this phenomenon from the other side - therapists claiming that many women do not find their partner because the media has shaped an unrealistic ideal, hard to meet by anybody. Science says, people tend to bond in comparable attractivity and big differences in physical attractivity shortens the duration of relationships. Maybe its the same with us men? There definitely are women whose standards i cannot live up to - for example because i am short. Some simply dont like it. Its not, that i see it as an general issue, but to some it is. (Which doesnt mean it has to keep me away from trying anyways, it just means that at some points i dont have to be disappointed when i tried and failed) And i think not accepting this will only cause pain - like in the rest of your life - because you have to get a realistic self-image to start with. And by "realistic" i mean realistic in both directions - know what you can do, but also know where you have to put effort in to do it. There is some downside to blind positivity - for example going to the silicone-breasted pinup ideal you were taught to have as a status symbol and failing most of the time, having some success and then glorifying it while in the reality you might be happier if you open yourself up to more a little bit.

I found your post a bit unclear Roy but I think I experience the same problem while doing day game. I posted a while ago about being self-conscious about my looks; after just looking at crowds of people for days, often couples, streaming past me, I just lost that self-consciousness. I see lots of men whom you wouldn't think to look twice at with beautiful partners, some could be models IMO if not for their height. Occasionally I see guys who could be models and they're hanging out with a crowd of males - homo or not I don't know.

At the same time, the number of eligible, approachable women isn't that great. Many are with their partners (sidenote: I notice A LOT of what seem to be lesbians in what's considered to be a relatively conservative country), too old, or just generally unnattractive to me for whatever reason. I also picked up the ability to see through make-up somewhat and that makes many girls rather less attractive to me. I don't know if I'm getting too arrogant as a beginner or anything though, maybe I'm setting my standards too high?

It's not true with men. Read pretty much every psychological study on attraction, women and men experience it VERY differently. It's guys like you who continue to project how they think onto women.

I guess I'll say this for the 2382nd time. Looks matter, but you are over-estimating how much they matter. Just about any man can be good-looking with 3-6 months of solid effort. Get off your ass. Get in a gym. Stop eating shit. Stop drinking. Get some nice clothes. Get a nice haircut.

http://www.practicalpickup.com/do-looks-matter

Stop giving yourself excuses. You're not ugly. You're not short. You're a chickenshit. You're scared shitless of being with hot girls. And that's why hot girls aren't attracted to you.

I swear to god, if one day my name pops up in the news for stabbing some guy in the face, it's because he probably sat there and gave me a long-winded explanation of why he thinks he's too ugly to ever get with a hot girl.

If you haven't gotten the gist of it yet Roy... girls don't think you're ugly. YOU think you're ugly. And when you think you're ugly, no girl is ever going to find you attractive (except girls who find themselves ugly, interestingly). So do whatever it takes for you to feel good about yourself and how you look (it shouldn't take much).

Honestly, that's what's so beneficial about joining a gym. Not that you get ripped and have giant muscles within a couple months -- you don't. It's that you feel like you look great after you've been working out for a while. Just the fact that you perceive yourself to be so attractive changes so much. I forgot who it was on this board that said it, but he said that he spends 1-2 hours getting ready to go out at night, because he always needs to feel like he's ridiculously good-looking, even if he's not. I can second that. I spend a lot of time and effort making sure I feel like I look like a bad ass whenever I go out, and I'm no where near the best looking guy in most of the places I go.

(05-03-2011 03:35 PM)Mark Wrote:  and I'm no where near the best looking guy in most of the places I go.

Especially if you go out with me...

Roy, I'm 5'8''. My last girlfriend was 6'1''. That's the equivalent of me being 4'11'' if I date a girl that's 5'4'' which isn't that uncommon of a height for girls.

(Note, this is a VERY rough analogy, I know. No need to go ripping into it to point out the ways in which it is a false analogy. Yet, there is still SOME truth/lesson to be learned from this, so concentrate on that)

I just want to add here that I've seen pictures of Roy's body on a German PUA forum, and they are very impressive. Looks like a bodybuilder.

However, I can see his problem when he tells us he's short.

So don't be too harsh with your responses, because he is no excuser, he is already doing a lot for his looks!

Looks are something that we all do the best with what we've got. But they're never an excuse.

I think the whole "well, some women are going to disqualify you for being short," is pointless. Women are going to disqualify you for every reason under the sun: too smart, too dumb, not fun enough, bad shoes, don't speak the language, not in a good mood, bad breath, blah, blah, blah... Yeah, if you're short, you'll get rejected more often than a tall guy. So what? In the long run, it's really not a major indicator on your results. If you're a confident, fun, charming and sexual guy who has an awesome lifestyle, dresses well, in good shape, has good friends, and knows how to flirt... your height is not going to account for very much.

And sorry to be so rough on Roy... I'm just so fucking tired of getting the looks questions over and over and over again from guys who are basically fishing for an excuse for their lack of results.

It is not that i think i am ugly, i am not. I am just average, not ugly but not the face girls would look at and say to their friends "he is so handsome". And i`ve had women bigger than me and - as i would perceive it - more attractive when rated by others on a scale from one to ten.

There ought to be a defensive statement here, but maybe you are just plain right. I was concerned with other things than PU for a lot of time and its frightening how old limiting beliefs are starting to rise again. Even if its true, that there are women that would NEVER by no means go into bed with me because of some outer appearance criterion - it has no purpose to think about that besides minimizing my chances with any girl i find attractive. Attractivity is most of the part not how you look in physical terms, but your charisma, which is much different and hard to explain. I (should) have learned that in the past. That somehow got lost a bit i think. I definetly have to start "sarging" again, i am still not at an point where it is included into every day life.