(05-01-2011 05:34 AM)Matt Wrote:  

(05-01-2011 05:28 AM)Brett Wrote:  

Let me explain what I mean by saying "a number is worth nothing". There are guys in the community who approach 20 girls a day/a night with the aim to get their telephone numbers. This is absurd, in my opinion. The best way (both to get good in PU and to enjoy your results) is to find a receptive girl, stay with her and escalate the interaction as far as possible (this means an instant date during the day and a makeout or maybe a SNL in nightgame). Of course, you take her number, too. But this comes only as a by-product, you don't aim primarily at getting her number.

Brett: Proper explanation of sexual stereotypes. (But "doctor" or any other academic profession is not one.)

Eh, I'm not sure I agree with either of these points.

1. I think there are a couple of ways to learn anything. Either total immersion, or step by step progression. You sound like you are more of a total immersion guy, and that's fine, but it might be overwhelming for some people and too much to take on at once. Thus, they need to set small, progressive goals to get better over-time. Overall, yes I agree it's dumb if you lose sight of your ultimate goal of getting laid and get caught up in the internet bullshit minutia of "For the next 2 weeks I'm going to work on perfecting my back turns and take aways" - but in some ways, focusing on smaller, incremental goals can be helpful. That's how I learn. You just gotta be able to drop that mentality at some point, get out of your head, and let everything you learn flow naturally.

2. Academic/professional is definitely a sexual stereotype. Think college professor, or high powered business man in a suit and tie. I just chose doctor cause I'm in med school, asshole , but I definitely think doctor fits somewhere into that "professional" category - maybe I was a bit TOO specific. Don't wear your white coat to a bar (my friend tried it)...and by friend, I mean kid I know in med school who's a bit of a tool.
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Sorry man but learning things progressively is nice and all but I know a few guys who hind behind that motif to not escalate and stuff like that just be carefull.
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Agreed. But it's still not worth throwing that system out. Just make sure you have clear and defined goals, and maybe hire a professional to help guide you along - tell you what's important to focus on - and make sure you don't get caught up with bullshit. Does anyone know of anyone good? I've heard of this program, I think it's called "Get a Girlfriend for Sure" or something like that - that lays out a series of well tested, well thought out mini progressive assignments with explanations and coaching in order to help get you to where you need to go. God - I wish I could remember the name of that program or the name of that douche bag who runs it...

Let me explain what I mean by saying "a number is worth nothing". There are guys in the community who approach 20 girls a day/a night with the aim to get their telephone numbers. This is absurd, in my opinion. The best way (both to get good in PU and to enjoy your results) is to find a receptive girl, stay with her and escalate the interaction as far as possible (this means an instant date during the day and a makeout or maybe a SNL in nightgame). Of course, you take her number, too. But this comes only as a by-product, you don't aim primarily at getting her number.

Brett: Proper explanation of sexual stereotypes. (But "doctor" or any other academic profession is not one.)

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Eh, I'm not sure I agree with either of these points.

1. I think there are a couple of ways to learn anything. Either total immersion, or step by step progression. You sound like you are more of a total immersion guy, and that's fine, but it might be overwhelming for some people and too much to take on at once. Thus, they need to set small, progressive goals to get better over-time. Overall, yes I agree it's dumb if you lose sight of your ultimate goal of getting laid and get caught up in the internet bullshit minutia of "For the next 2 weeks I'm going to work on perfecting my back turns and take aways" - but in some ways, focusing on smaller, incremental goals can be helpful. That's how I learn. You just gotta be able to drop that mentality at some point, get out of your head, and let everything you learn flow naturally.

2. Academic/professional is definitely a sexual stereotype. Think college professor, or high powered business man in a suit and tie. I just chose doctor cause I'm in med school, asshole , but I definitely think doctor fits somewhere into that "professional" category - maybe I was a bit TOO specific. Don't wear your white coat to a bar (my friend tried it)...and by friend, I mean kid I know in med school who's a bit of a tool.
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Brett, I see what you mean. It's a comfort-zone thing. You must learn to feel comfortable with escalating the interaction as far as possible.

In my PUA development there has been a long period of stagnation, when I was only doing "numbers crunching". My game didn't progress. Then on a German PUA forum I read an article called "number closes - never again!" by a famous German PUA. The basic message was "Whatever you like to do with a girl - do it right NOW, and don't take the number as an excuse not to do it right now". This text had a strong influence on me and made me progress with huge steps.

Brett, another point. I'm an academic, too (I got a PhD, yeah! ). But I must tell you, unfortunately, this is a major turn-off for girls (even for the intelligent ones) because it's simply nothing "thrilling". This makes me feel sad somehow, because I'm passionate about my academic job and this is really an important aspect of my life, but that's just the way it is. Women like rockstar types, Gs, thugs, athletes, or bohemian types. Out of these five, the bohemian type is probably the easiest one to adopt for intellectual guys like us. So that's what I did.

The concept of MLTRs messed me up for a bit. This "myth" doesn't get discussed/debunked much because... well, not that many people get far enough to have MLTRs. But the idea that you can indefinitely hold any woman in an open relationship if you just follow certain rules is whacked. Every woman is different and wants different things. Most of the guys who claim to have tons of MLTRs really just have a couple fuck buddies and a girlfriend or something. It's much healthier to just go with the flow and let relationships grow or pass naturally. The book on Polyamory that Mark recommended is pretty good regardless of whether you want to be polyamorous.

I really can't stand the concept of value. It is so relative that it is largely useless, except to make you feel shitty and judge others.

In my opinion, phone numbers:
Myth 1: phone numbers are important - beginner myth
Myth 2: phone numbers are useless - intermediate myth

To "doctor" as a sexual stereotype... I think that's misinterpreting sexual stereotyping. It's basically learning to have sexy style. I don't think girls see doctors and think about them as being good in bed. Doctor is much more of a relationship, or provider-ish, stereotype. Not that I'm knocking BEING a doctor, but you wouldn't wear your scrubs out to the bar. Unless I guess you were "DHV-ing" or "peacocking"

(05-01-2011 01:23 PM)Solid Wrote:  The concept of MLTRs messed me up for a bit. This "myth" doesn't get discussed/debunked much because... well, not that many people get far enough to have MLTRs. But the idea that you can indefinitely hold any woman in an open relationship if you just follow certain rules is whacked. Every woman is different and wants different things. Most of the guys who claim to have tons of MLTRs really just have a couple fuck buddies and a girlfriend or something. It's much healthier to just go with the flow and let relationships grow or pass naturally. The book on Polyamory that Mark recommended is pretty good regardless of whether you want to be polyamorous.

I really can't stand the concept of value. It is so relative that it is largely useless, except to make you feel shitty and judge others.

In my opinion, phone numbers:
Myth 1: phone numbers are important - beginner myth
Myth 2: phone numbers are useless - intermediate myth

To "doctor" as a sexual stereotype... I think that's misinterpreting sexual stereotyping. It's basically learning to have sexy style. I don't think girls see doctors and think about them as being good in bed. Doctor is much more of a relationship, or provider-ish, stereotype. Not that I'm knocking BEING a doctor, but you wouldn't wear your scrubs out to the bar. Unless I guess you were "DHV-ing" or "peacocking"

George Clooney, Dr. McDreamy...nuff' said

This comes back to the demographics thing mentioned in the race thread... Doctors and academics are going to be very attractive to a certain demographic of women and boring or uninteresting to another demographic. If you're going after 19-year-old club girls with short skirts, then yeah, it's probably not going to help you much. But if you're going after 24-year-old law students or grad students in biology, then it's going to be a big turn on.

I've been places where male doctors get a lot of love.

General: I can't imagine a Ph.D ever being a turn off... I can see it not being a turn on. But I would say that you're probably spending a lot of time pursuing girls who are not a good fit for you. I honestly think you can make any job work for you, it just depends on what else you have going on in your life. If you're a professor and... that's it. Yeah, that's kind of boring. But if you're a professor, play in a band, and dance merengue, then you're becoming a lot more interesting.

As usual, this stuff is not black and white.

Perhaps this is the same reason you came to the conclusion that night clubs are a waste of time. They're not... if that's your demographic. I think it's pretty clear that's not your demographic though.

Oh, and I suppose it's worth noting that doctors in the US make shitloads of money. I don't think that's the case in Europe.

Like attract likes. If you go to any university, most phd are dating..other phd or other highly intelligent girls.

What does simple minded club girls offer you in long term in terms of intellectual value? Also, if you want hot intelligent girl, you should be fit yourself. If you're a fat guy with no confident and expect your phd degree to do all the work for you, obviously it's not going to work.

However, i cant imagine a phd with 6 packs, fantastic social skill and confident would have problem dating grad students.

Sorry man but learning things progressively is nice and all but I know a few guys who hind behind that motif to not escalate and stuff like that just be carefull.
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That's not a failure in the method of progressive learning. The failure lies in how these guys are implementing i.

check out 3:23 at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSEV6O5JoPI

(05-01-2011 05:07 PM)Mark Wrote:  Oh, and I suppose it's worth noting that doctors in the US make shitloads of money. I don't think that's the case in Europe.

Yup. Doctors and lawyers are both more prestigious and (relatedly) lucrative fields in this country

(05-02-2011 02:54 AM)Jon Wrote:  

(05-01-2011 05:07 PM)Mark Wrote:  Oh, and I suppose it's worth noting that doctors in the US make shitloads of money. I don't think that's the case in Europe.

Yup. Doctors and lawyers are both more prestigious and (relatedly) lucrative fields in this country

Still I wouldn't want to practice medicine over there. Seems you can get sued easily over there for malpractice.