Initially a year ago, i was flaming dream on masf for having the whole 8 lays thing. But like mark said, he finally knows his place, which is NOT being a coach and more of being an organizer.

Imo, during 2008, the dude is still 19 years ago. He's still super young so it's hard to expect him to have the maturity to run the perfect convention. Still, some of the speaker he invited, particularly the health speakers is pretty good. Especially since he post those videos up for free.

Sometime first impression can hurt the guy. Personally, he's a 22-23 years old man nowaday. If he ask mark to give a speech at the21convention again and he sounds like a more mature adult, i think mark should consider it. It would at least give mark more exposer

Hey Mark since you you met most coaches at those conventions, and also because you don't do affiliate marketing with them you don't give a damn about protecting their reputation in case they suck - what is your opinion about company "The Social Man" (Christian Hudson, Nick Sparks)

(05-01-2011 01:48 AM)Brian Wrote:  Initially a year ago, i was flaming dream on masf for having the whole 8 lays thing. But like mark said, he finally knows his place, which is NOT being a coach and more of being an organizer.

Imo, during 2008, the dude is still 19 years ago. He's still super young so it's hard to expect him to have the maturity to run the perfect convention. Still, some of the speaker he invited, particularly the health speakers is pretty good. Especially since he post those videos up for free.

Sometime first impression can hurt the guy. Personally, he's a 22-23 years old man nowaday. If he ask mark to give a speech at the21convention again and he sounds like a more mature adult, i think mark should consider it. It would at least give mark more exposer

Except now he has decided that he is some sort of health guru, is just as arrogant about that as ever, still makes absurd speeches at 21 convention events, etc.

This is the negative side effect of Tim Ferris's book. People get this idea that they can quit their jobs and make money online without actually having to develop any real expertise in something.

(05-01-2011 01:04 AM)Jon Wrote:  Well, not to sound like PUA hate but dream appears to be one of the biggest charlatans in the industry. The guy openly admitted to having started coaching with over 1000 approaches and NO lays off cold approach. He said he was good at opening!

I forget who said this (might have been Mark) but one coach explained that there's so much attention paid to AA and opening because that's where most of the newbies need the most help, and so it's a bigger market. A lot of the seduction industry (as distinguished from the non-profit seduction community) preys on, um, serves new guys who don't have any experience in the seduction world.

Seems like Dream is an example of this phenomenon in action.

I wrote about it here (under Intermediate): http://www.practicalpickup.com/guide-to-...with-women

Quote:Guys in the intermediate stage can often be deceiving and to an untrained eye often appear better than they actually are. They can approach and hook many women, often in a very charming and exciting manner. To most civilians and newbies this looks very impressive. Unfortunately, they don’t get laid often and when they do, it’s usually because the girl is very easy and/or she puts in most of the effort escalating things. A lot of intermediate guys start believing they’re better than they are as well.

I think the original version had a section about how Intermediate guys will often start coaching newbies on how to approach because newbies are unable to tell the difference between Intermediate guys and guys who actually get laid.

But yeah, and don't want to hate on Dream... He's not even close to the only person who's done this. At least he's providing a service and putting something unique out there. There are dozens of locals guys all over the country who cash in on this and really offer nothing other than being able to approach.

In fact, a couple weeks ago a G3 member emailed me excited that local guys had begun coming to him for coaching in his town. This is a guy who just weeks before joined the program complaining that for the last year every single one of his numbers flaked.

I think the original version of the article said the following: if newbies need someone to help them approach and that's it, then fine. Intermediate guys are fine for that. Hell, even paying $50-100 for help getting over AA is probably worth it for a lot of people. And it sure as hell beats paying Love Systems or RSD thousands for basically the same service. But the problem is when these local coaches start peddling entire systems and proclaiming themselves as experts, when really they've only been with a handful of drunk girls in bars.

Yeah, this is a good point. And unlike a lot of others (cough, mehow, cough) Dream was never anything but honest about his results. He was just a bit overconfident about what that meant. What I have noticed is that odds are, the average community guy I have winged with either has too much approach anxiety to approach at all, or can do a few approaches but ejects really quickly, and so are massively impressed if you can have a solid five minute interaction. So I can see how it would be easy for an intermediate guy to get a big head about things and decide he's a pick up guru. I remember about a year ago I met up with two community guys I knew towards the end of the night, got to the bar, did one approach, and by complete fluke ended up making out with the girl very quickly (entirely dumb luck, it was the girl's 21st birthday, she was partying all night, etc.) and these guys thought I was amazingly skilled. The reality was I had big gaping holes in my game and I knew it.

I just saw that speeches of Psych, Fuji and Nick Sparks came online...

Wondering what those guys have to say, since I still haven't heard any bad review about them...

*starts watching*

Fuji - only ever heard good things.
Psych - haven't heard much, but what I heard was good.
Nick Sparks - gets good reviews, has a good attitude, but I have been underwhelmed both by his speeches and by Unbreakable. Not to say any of it is bad or you could screw yourself up listening to him, it just seems like stuff I have heard before and kinda vague. I was pretty excited about hearing Christian Hudson's stuff, since I like what Juggler said but thought it could use updating/expanding, but he seems to have gone in a more inner game direction, in a way that isn't terrible, but isn't really all that useful. I'm hopeful with that company though, since, as mark pointed out, inner game is really difficult to teach.

Eltopo aka Steve Mayeda seems like a cool guy. He seems to have good content, although I do hate his industry bashing. Seems like a marketing ploy.

(05-08-2011 07:17 AM)Frozen Flame Wrote:  I just saw that speeches of Psych, Fuji and Nick Sparks came online...

Wondering what those guys have to say, since I still haven't heard any bad review about them...

*starts watching*

I just watched Fuji's speech and it was one of the best pick up / life improvement pieces I have watched. Although it was long it covered a ton of information such as conversation basics and how to set reasonable goals.