That's insane, that coaches won't even demo on a bootcamp. I'm assuming this is only shady, unknown guys and not reputable companies..?

It's more common than you'd think. Very very few coaches are comfortable demoing. Sometimes I really don't feel like doing it, but I still do. Back in the day I used to worry about getting blown out in front of students, but I don't really give a shit now. But it blew me away when I started doing this how many guys I talked to who had taken bootcamps with other companies and never actually saw the coach do anything. Honestly, I think the value of demo sets are a tad overrated, but I still think it's very helpful for the student to see a couple.

The refunds are legit and it's enough money that you could take a company to court over them. I've heard very very few situations where a guy didn't get a refund. But I do know that Love Systems and RSD, if a guy wants a refund, often they'll just offer them a second bootcamp for free with a different coach. Love Systems actually used to give their refundees to BradP to coach for free. I actually talked to a guy once who did a BradP program and said that like 4 of the 6 guys there were LS refundees.

So they are giving the money to Brad P instead of giving it back? O.o

Seems like there are a lot of frauds. Someone even went through the trouble to make a forum to complain about it

I don't see it so much as frauds as much as that the industry hadn't/hasn't matured completely yet. On the one hand you can blame coaches who boast about stupid, pointless shit...... but on the other hand, if there weren't guys who bought into that nonsense, then we could have avoided this altogether.

But the more educated the average guy becomes, the more he's going to expect from the dating advice industry. And the more he expects, the better and more mature content and coaching is going to be out there.

I think the market is already smartening up, and therefore coaches/gurus are either having to evolve and clean up their act or they're falling by the wayside.

What do you think of the idea of dating coaches being regulated and licensed like therapists, in some far off future?

Do you they're analogous to real therapists, or a closer match to free-for-all self-help gurus or life coaches?

If nothing else, it would be cool if there was a one stop shop where a guy who was all depressed or messed up and shit on top of being bad with women wouldn't need his dating coach to tell him, "see a shrink about that part"

I guess coaches suffer from their own marketing. If you tell your customers that they'll never be rejected again, and that they will always get the girl and score with 9's and 10's all the time, if you buy their product, then they obviously will die of pressure when those same customers ask the coach to demo.

Funny how they send their refundees to Brad P.. At my Brad P bootcamp, one guy actually got really pissed off, because after a demo set Brad disappeared into the toilet with a girl for 15+ minutes, lol. Later when we left that club, just outside the door there was a long line with quite a few people waiting behind a rope or fence. As the rest is walking away, Brad starts talking to this girl who's also standing in line. I started leaving too, following the rest of the guys and the other coach. A few seconds later I look back to see what's taking him so long. Then he was making out with the girl who was standing among dozens of other people in the line, while Brad was alone on the other side of the fence... She was like "Who ARE you??". If anything, that shows you what's possible. But not many coach can do shit like that obviously.

(04-14-2011 06:39 PM)Philip Wrote:  I guess coaches suffer from their own marketing. If you tell your customers that they'll never be rejected again, and that they will always get the girl and score with 9's and 10's all the time, if you buy their product, then they obviously will die of pressure when those same customers ask the coach to demo.

Funny how they send their refundees to Brad P.. At my Brad P bootcamp, one guy actually got really pissed off, because after a demo set Brad disappeared into the toilet with a girl for 15+ minutes, lol. Later when we left that club, just outside the door there was a long line with quite a few people waiting behind a rope or fence. As the rest is walking away, Brad starts talking to this girl who's also standing in line. I started leaving too, following the rest of the guys and the other coach. A few seconds later I look back to see what's taking him so long. Then he was making out with the girl who was standing among dozens of other people in the line, while Brad was alone on the other side of the fence... She was like "Who ARE you??". If anything, that shows you what's possible. But not many coach can do shit like that obviously.

That was kinda unprofessional on his side, but at least he proved that he can walk the walk.

Still, coaches can have great game, but still be terrible at coaching.

(04-14-2011 07:25 PM)Frozen Flame Wrote:  That was kinda unprofessional on his side, but at least he proved that he can walk the walk.

Still, coaches can have great game, but still be terrible at coaching.

Well, it's good if the coach does a demo set. You want the coach to show how it's done. To do the best he can do. If he's really good, he can end up seducing the girl. Getting her into the toilet of the club to do naughty things after ~15 minutes is pretty much as good as it gets. So you'd want him to show you how to do that.

Then the question is, should a coach at the moment that he isolates her in the toilet (lol), just say "Alright, gotta get back to my students. See ya!"? Of course he shouldn't leave for too long, but if he gets a girl into the toilet, he might as well finish his business there imo.

Quote:What do you think of the idea of dating coaches being regulated and licensed like therapists, in some far off future?

I love it. I've thought about it and wondered what it would take to get it started. I do think eventually this will end up as a localized and regulated industry, similar to acupuncturists or chiropracters.

Re BradP stories: Brad is definitely legit. But that's kind of the other side of the spectrum. There are a number of coaches who ARE good, but who will ditch their students for girls and then claim they were "teaching" or whatever.

I always tell guys that I'm being paid NOT to get laid. Sure, I've gone home with girls on bootcamp before, but it's always at closing time. I never leave with a girl mid-session. I've probably passed up 5-6 lays over the years because of that.

I think there is too much made up fame around dating coaches that will stand the test of time. All the characters from The Game will always be in demand (right?) and more so than your local registered 'practitioner'. Wouldnt that be weird to visit your local PUA instructor and get your sticking point fixed... recommended, of course, by your therapist. Actually not a bad idea.
For a while (Im over it now) I believed that a lot of social disorders could be sorted by teaching this stuff to guys who would otherwise be fringe-dwelling weirdos.