I admit, I was mostly ignorant when it comes to US economic. In fact, ignorant is bliss, but you cant remain ignorant forever.

Until one day, i watched both the inside jobs and too big to fail and do a little more research on derivative then i got massively pissed.

I dont know what the fuck the politician is doing, but the US is massively fucked.

Trillions(yes trillions) of dollars wasted on what is essentially gambling. Wallstreet brought absolutely zero value to society and yet stole from 95 percent of US population and the rest of the world.

Right now we got an incompetant president who basically hired the same fucking people who ruined this country to begin with and made all the same mistakes Bush did.

For those who understand a thing about US economy, what in your opinion must our politican do to fix this economy?

IMO, here's my perspective.

1. Fire all those people who ruined our economy. Do what FDR did and start hiring the real experts from top universities and have them as presidental advisors.

2. Start incorporating massive tariffs so that the US trade deficit gets lower and put the jobs back into the market.

3. Get rid of the Universal healthcare. Universal Healthcare might be ok during the Clinton ERA when the economy was good, but its an unacceptable program during our current state.

4. Start to massively inflate the dollars so that our labors are competitive to the rest of the world.

5. Start putting massive regulation on derivatives and wall streets.

6. Start to massively tax the rich. Put us back into pre-reagan era and tax those damn rich people 75 percent instead of the bullshit 15 percent that is right now.

7. Reinstate the glass steagall act.

Jobs is the primary reason why we elected Obama and he needs to concentrate his energy on it. We dont give a shit if he kills bin laden, abortion issues or other irrevelant issues that he's concentrating on.

There's probably more that should be done and i want to hear you guys input.

The health care bill is not government-funded health care. It forces people onto private health care plans and for the insurance industry to provide for everyone and to help prices. We are not going to a publicly paid plan. Most people still don't get that.

#1 Agreed.

#4's already happening and has been happening.

#5 This is what the Dodd-Frank Act is trying to do, but right now it's being gutted in Congress by Wall Street lobbyists.

#6 Maybe not that massive of an increase, but yes, tax rate need to go up for the wealthy and the tax code needs to be reformed.

#7 Agreed.

A lot of this is what has inspired the Occupy Wall Street movement. And I have to say, it's about fucking time. Our politicians have been avoiding the important questions. The media has been avoiding the important questions. Somebody needs to hold their feet to the fire. Granted, I mainly blame the Republicans for a lot of this, but Obama hasn't exactly been our knight in shining armor that he campaigned to be.

It's ironic. In 2008, the biggest criticism was that Obama would be inexperienced and suck at foreign policy, while it was expected that he would counter-act a lot of the economic problems that have happened in the last 10 years. It's been the exact opposite actually. He's shown himself to be incredibly shrewd and able when it comes to foreign policy, yet domestically has been half-assing a lot of what he was expected to do. Again, a lot of the blame goes to the Republicans in Congress, but still...

A magnificent piece by Jon Stewart on the economy

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-au...ershare_fb

My friend insists that if you raise the tax on the rich rather than the poor, then the rich will leave the country but I'm not certain it works that simply.

I agree with everything but #2 and #4. Increasing trade barriers has been proven time in and time out to make things much worse economically. Inflation in the U.S. is happening naturally, because the fed is printing money like it's going out of style.

I don't really agree with #6-at least as you describe it. People have to stop blaming the "rich" for their troubles. Most people who get rich deserve it and they shouldn't be punished for it. Sure there are a few rich scumbags out there, but that doesn't mean that all rich people are evil. 75% is way too excessive. It's borderline communism.

I am Canadian, but I have been following what's going on in the U.S., and in my opinion, the best choice for you guys right now is Ron Paul.

Also a lot of people at the "occupy X city" protests are fucken hypocrites. In Toronto, I see those idiots protesting while sipping on their $5 lattes and texting on their $600 iPhones. You can't just blame the government for all your hardships. People need to start taking more responsibility for their lives.

(10-22-2011 09:10 PM)Mark Wrote:  A lot of this is what has inspired the Occupy Wall Street movement. And I have to say, it's about fucking time. Our politicians have been avoiding the important questions. The media has been avoiding the important questions. Somebody needs to hold their feet to the fire. Granted, I mainly blame the Republicans for a lot of this, but Obama hasn't exactly been our knight in shining armor that he campaigned to be.

Some of the demands are so ridiculous though. For example, they want the government to impose tariffs, but completely open up borders. Lot of the protesters are just stupid lazy hippies.

The Occupy Wall Street people are not protesting corporations, they're protesting corporate money controlling politics. A lot of media keeps caricaturing them inaccurately.

The crux of the matter is that right now there are a number of policies that the majority of the US population supports which are not even being discussed by Congress, the most obvious one being raising taxes on the top 1%. American politicians have become loyal to their campaign contributors and lobbyists, not their constituents and it's fucking over the entire system.

As for people who are rich deserving it, there's a lot of luck that's involved with becoming successful. Not to mention these people got rich using roads, highways, electricity, mail services, utilities, police protection, and tax breaks that WE ALL PAID FOR. WE HELPED THEM, so they must give SOMETHING back. That's the social contract. We all pitch in so that we can all have opportunity, and those that succeed are expected to give some back.

I agree, the top rate should not be 75%, but it should not be lower than the middle class, which is what it is now. Or as Warren Buffet (worth $45 billion) said: "I should not be paying a lower tax rate than my secretary." It should go back at least to what it was during the Clinton years.

I also think that Brian pointed out something that's true: a deregulated financial sector doesn't actually add value to the economy. Wall Street is incentivized to create bubbles to cash in on them. Credit-Default-Swaps and a lot of the credit packages that were created that got us into this mess didn't actually serve any valuable purpose for the economy -- it was synthetic value created out of thin air to keep themselves profitable at our expense.

So again, I would disagree: many rich people do not deserve to be rich. Someone like Steve Jobs absolutely deserves his billions. Many of the hedge fund managers and CEO's on Wall Street do not deserve all of the money they have. Capitalism is based on the idea that you earn money for providing value to the marketplace. But when one sector of the economy pays the government into letting them profit off of creating fake value for the economy, then the system is broken and needs to be fixed. Our financial sector is a cancer right now, and it's bringing the country down, and unfortunately, it looks like most of the western world down with us...

I respect the hell out of Ron Paul, but the guy would make it worse, not better.

(10-23-2011 04:01 AM)TheBoss Wrote:  Some of the demands are so ridiculous though. For example, they want the government to impose tariffs, but completely open up borders. Lot of the protesters are just stupid lazy hippies.

And a lot of them are hard-working citizens who got completely hosed and feel disenfranchised by the system.

There have been a lot of people who have made a lot of "demands" in the name of the movement, but the protestors do not have a set agenda or leader.

And I would argue that the role of protests is not to set policy. That's the role of politicians. The role of protests is to raise awareness, and be so fucking obnoxious about a certain problem that society can't ignore it anymore. From that perspective I would say they've been pretty damn successful so far. I hope they continue.

(10-23-2011 03:54 AM)master0rolando Wrote:  My friend insists that if you raise the tax on the rich rather than the poor, then the rich will leave the country but I'm not certain it works that simply.

No offense, but your friend doesn't know what he's talking about:

1. Tax rates for the rich are far higher in every other developed nation in the world. So they have nothing to gain by leaving.

2. US citizens are required to pay taxes regardless of where they live in the world. And getting citizenship to another country is not easy and is a multi-year long process.

3. Most rich people already evade taxes through off-shore investments and bank accounts anyway.

FDR raise the tax super high and none of the rich leave. The rich was the one giving out the propaganda about how they're leaving the country to scare the rest of the people, like yourself TheBoss.

Before reagan, there was a 75 percent tax bracket and there's plenty of rich people in this country. it's all about tolerance. This country spoiled these billionaires so much and listen to fucking bullshit ayn rand philosophy that they completely forgotten what made this country great to begin with.

(10-23-2011 05:40 AM)Brian Wrote:  FDR raise the tax super high and none of the rich leave. The rich was the one giving out the propaganda about how they're leaving the country to scare the rest of the people, like yourself TheBoss.

Before reagan, there was a 75 percent tax bracket and there's plenty of rich people in this country. it's all about tolerance. This country spoiled these billionaires so much and listen to fucking bullshit ayn rand philosophy that they completely forgotten what made this country great to begin with.

Lol, I am not afraid that the rich are leaving...but I still think 75% is ridiculously high. 40-50% for certain income brackets are enough.