(05-20-2011 01:34 AM)Mark Wrote:  Couple points:

1) The fact you're not having sex with these girls (if your previous statements were true) means that you don't actually have 50 notches. I've made out with and fooled around with probably over 300 girls at this point, but I don't count any of them, and honestly none of them were really significant experiences compared to the actual lays I've had.

2) Not having sex with them is going to leave you with a completely different after-experience than having sex with them. The major one being, having sex with girls usually makes you less motivated to have sex with more, whereas not having sex with girls usually makes you even MORE motivated to have sex with more. You're basically blue-balling yourself here. Also, the validation you're seeking from women is never actually being received because you keep stopping short of actually pulling the trigger. Therefore the actual validation you're "Addicted" to here is not from women, but from the reputation or the ego boost you get from knowing you "could" have sex with a bunch of girls, but the actual affection, excitement and emotional attachment that sex brings isn't actually getting to you.

It really does not sound like a pleasant place to be. I think the to (glaringly) obvious moves here are the following: 1) stop going out and doing pick up if you don't actually want to sleep with a bunch of girls. It makes absolutely no sense. Instead, meet nice, hot Christian girls and get a girlfriend, it's probably what you need anyway. Or 2) start fucking them.

I've been having this debate with my buddies for years. IMO (and probably mine alone) it's a lot more impressive to have option to fuck a girl and choose not to, than it is to fuck everything that walks. That's pretty much what I base my entire existence on, you know? You've gotta believe pretty strongly in something to turn so many girls down for sex for so long. Like I said in the other thread, I'll do everything literally right up to penetration. However you choose to recognize that is up to you. It's really no skin off my back. Props to you for 300+ though.

Also, I think you're assuming the only way that I'm going to get that validation is through sex and I'm not getting it because I stop short of "pulling the trigger". I also need to clarify here that I'm not a virgin, but I decided a long time ago that I would only have sex out of love, not lust, and I've had sex with 2 different girls, both of whom I was in love with, and one of whom I am still currently sleeping with. So it's not like I'm not having sex - I just only choose to do it with girls I'm in love with. That's my justification, and I'm not even really sure if I think it's valid or not, but nonetheless..

In response to your suggestions:

1) If your only reason to pick up girls is to fuck them, I guess that's fine for you, but I thrive off the ego boost, like we discussed in the validation trap thread. That's why I pick them up. I don't think it's pointless (pick up), and it's really one of the only things I'm good at.

2) Hot Christian girls is kind of an oxymoron where I live, I'm afraid. Any of the hot Christian girls that I've met are so loopy/brainwashed IMO that they have no concept of the real world outside of the church, and I can't relate to them on anything. And I've tried doing the girlfriend thing, I feel "trapped", go insane and either A) turn into a huge asshole or B) break it off

3) As for starting to fuck them, I don't really think it makes that much of a difference. Like you said, the tonnes of girls you've fooled around with don't even compare to the sex you've had. Well, I've definitely had much hotter sexual experiences where I DIDN'T have sex, so, it's just not the same for me I guess. And I hate to say it, but unfortunately I feel like every day I'm slipping closer & closer to being able to justify fucking every girl I have the opportunity to - and I don't want to reach that point. But this is more of a personal/spiritual issue I don't feel ENTIRELY discussion on the forum, you know?

I'm definitely not your average PUA though. As you can see.

Quote:I've been having this debate with my buddies for years. IMO (and probably mine alone) it's a lot more impressive to have option to fuck a girl and choose not to, than it is to fuck everything that walks.

That's my point. Who cares what's more impressive? What's going to make you happier? Obviously this is not... otherwise you would not be starting this thread. If you have sex for love and not lust, why are you pursuing lust? That's kind of bizarre behavior and self-defeating behavior...

Quote:I thrive off the ego boost, like we discussed in the validation trap thread.

Yeah... it's clear that's what's most important to you. Not healthy. Not going to make you happy.

Quote:And I've tried doing the girlfriend thing, I feel "trapped", go insane and either A) turn into a huge asshole or B) break it off.

And that's probably the root issue here. Issues of commitment and emotional intimacy. I'd bet money that this has more to do with the lack of sex than the religion. The religion (no offense) is probably your rationalization for it. And hate to get all Dr. Phil on you, but your parents getting divorced recently is not a coincidence either. These things are all linked.

(05-20-2011 02:42 AM)Mark Wrote:  

Quote:I've been having this debate with my buddies for years. IMO (and probably mine alone) it's a lot more impressive to have option to fuck a girl and choose not to, than it is to fuck everything that walks.

That's my point. Who cares what's more impressive? What's going to make you happier? Obviously this is not... otherwise you would not be starting this thread.

Quote:I thrive off the ego boost, like we discussed in the validation trap thread.

Yeah... it's clear that's what's most important to you. Not healthy. Not going to make you happy.

Oh I agree with all of that. Just trying to un-headfuck myself here bouncing my thoughts off you guys. Kinda trying to give you some insight into my thought process here though. Doesn't sound like anyone can really relate. Which isn't unexpected..

(05-20-2011 02:38 AM)DaveyDrama Wrote:  1) If your only reason to pick up girls is to fuck them, I guess that's fine for you, but I thrive off the ego boost, like we discussed in the validation trap thread. That's why I pick them up. I don't think it's pointless (pick up), and it's really one of the only things I'm good at.

1) Picking up girls for the ego boost is a serious problem. It's the definition of manipulation! The girl is there to actually form some kind of connection with you, but you are there just to prove how awesome you are and trying to get a reaction.

2) What the fuck is the point of picking up if not to have sex with girls? I mean, if you are in it for a girlfriend, great, but that also leads to sex. What is your point in doing this? Just stroking your ego? Having a one night stand is not using women if you are doing it because you want to have a fun time with her (also, see the other thread where I said I won't take girls home if I don't like them). What you are doing, however, IS using women. I say this not just to moralize, I say this because this is why you are lonely, you are alienating yourself from other people, by turning every human interaction into a chance to show how much better you are than them.

(05-20-2011 02:49 AM)Jon Wrote:  

(05-20-2011 02:38 AM)DaveyDrama Wrote:  1) If your only reason to pick up girls is to fuck them, I guess that's fine for you, but I thrive off the ego boost, like we discussed in the validation trap thread. That's why I pick them up. I don't think it's pointless (pick up), and it's really one of the only things I'm good at.

1) Picking up girls for the ego boost is a serious problem. It's the definition of manipulation! The girl is there to actually form some kind of connection with you, but you are there just to prove how awesome you are and trying to get a reaction.

2) What the fuck is the point of picking up if not to have sex with girls? I mean, if you are in it for a girlfriend, great, but that also leads to sex. What is your point in doing this? Just stroking your ego? Having a one night stand is not using women if you are doing it because you want to have a fun time with her (also, see the other thread where I said I won't take girls home if I don't like them). What you are doing, however, IS using women. I say this not just to moralize, I say this because this is why you are lonely, you are alienating yourself from other people, by turning every human interaction into a chance to show how much better you are than them.

I know ...

I edited this into my previous reply... wanted to make sure you see it.

Quote:And I've tried doing the girlfriend thing, I feel "trapped", go insane and either A) turn into a huge asshole or B) break it off.

And that's probably the root issue here. Issues of commitment and emotional intimacy. I'd bet money that this has more to do with the lack of sex than the religion. Commitment issues and sex issues go hand-in-hand. I've seen it 1,000 times, including in myself. The religion (no offense) is probably your rationalization for it. And hate to get all Dr. Phil on you, but your parents getting divorced recently is not a coincidence either. These things are all linked.

My impression: you use picking up girls without sex as a way to receive some of the affection and validation that you need without ever actually having to risk your own emotions or intimacy. You may feel like some of these interactions are intimate, but as Jon pointed out, they're actually mirages that you're creating. They're not real, and ultimately, they're making you desire that validation even more. You're leading yourself on and in the process, you're leading most of these girls on too. This pattern is only going to get worse, not better.

As much as guys never admit it, our emotions do get tied up in sex in many ways, particularly with vulnerability, and it seems that's what you're avoiding here. Your inability and "trapped" feeling in relationships also backs this up.

Get therapy dude. Seriously. As a fellow kid of divorced parents who didn't exactly have their shit together either, as someone who lived in the validation trap for a few years, and as someone who also felt "trapped" and sabotaged a lot of my early relationships, I can tell you, you need some legitimate emotional help.

You can try to break these patterns on your own, but my guess is it's going to be very unpleasant and you won't be as motivated to do it without the support of someone you can trust. But I'd say 1) stop going out and picking up unless you really like a girl, 2) look for a girlfriend, 3) once you find one, make her aware of your issues and make her aware of your tendency to sabotage or run away... commit to her that you don't want to run away. Let her help you through it. Stick it out.

If you get through that period, what you'll find is that you'll enter probably the first real relationship of your life. And you'll discover that what that girlfriend can give you on a day-to-day basis is what you actually needed all along.

Hmm, so my last reply was a bit harsh. I agree with what Mark said. I have one additional suggestion - try telling a girl exactly what you want before you are in a position to hook up with her. You might get more out of your interactions

[\quote] Oh I agree with all of that. Just trying to un-headfuck myself here bouncing my thoughts off you guys. Kinda trying to give you some insight into my thought process here though. Doesn't sound like anyone can really relate. Which isn't unexpected..
[/quote]

I have one really key piece of advice for you based on this statement. Sounds like you are really obsessed with feeling like you and your situation are really unique. I totally get this. For a long time I felt like my attitude to girls, ethics, and the philosophical whirlwind in my head was somehow deeper or different than any one else's. And that the solution or answers were somehow far more complex than any of the advice I ever got. Honestly though, that was a bunch of bullshit. Everyone's ego is trying to convince them that their situation is unique, when it's 99% the same as every one else's.

The answers that you're looking for here are going to be the same for you as 99% of other guys.

Like Mark said in his '15 things I learned from five years as a PUA' post, "Guys who are trying to bang 100 girls usually need to get a girlfriend. Guys who are trying to get a girlfriend usually need to bang 100 girls."

Clearly you're not going to get fulfillment from chasing more skirts. Instead you need to learn to have healthy, fulfilling relationships with women, whether that be through friendships or relationships.

(05-20-2011 02:57 AM)Mark Wrote:  I edited this into my previous reply... wanted to make sure you see it.

Quote:And I've tried doing the girlfriend thing, I feel "trapped", go insane and either A) turn into a huge asshole or B) break it off.

And that's probably the root issue here. Issues of commitment and emotional intimacy. I'd bet money that this has more to do with the lack of sex than the religion. Commitment issues and sex issues go hand-in-hand. I've seen it 1,000 times, including in myself. The religion (no offense) is probably your rationalization for it. And hate to get all Dr. Phil on you, but your parents getting divorced recently is not a coincidence either. These things are all linked.

My impression: you use picking up girls without sex as a way to receive some of the affection and validation that you need without ever actually having to risk your own emotions or intimacy. You may feel like some of these interactions are intimate, but as Jon pointed out, they're actually mirages that you're creating. They're not real, and ultimately, they're making you desire that validation even more. You're leading yourself on and in the process, you're leading most of these girls on too. This pattern is only going to get worse, not better.

As much as guys never admit it, our emotions do get tied up in sex in many ways, particularly with vulnerability, and it seems that's what you're avoiding here. Your inability and "trapped" feeling in relationships also backs this up.

Get therapy dude. Seriously. As a fellow kid of divorced parents who didn't exactly have their shit together either, as someone who lived in the validation trap for a few years, and as someone who also felt "trapped" and sabotaged a lot of my early relationships, I can tell you, you need some legitimate emotional help.

You can try to break these patterns on your own, but my guess is it's going to be very unpleasant and you won't be as motivated to do it without the support of someone you can trust. But I'd say 1) stop going out and picking up unless you really like a girl, 2) look for a girlfriend, 3) once you find one, make her aware of your issues and make her aware of your tendency to sabotage or run away... commit to her that you don't want to run away. Let her help you through it. Stick it out.

If you get through that period, what you'll find is that you'll enter probably the first real relationship of your life. And you'll discover that what that girlfriend can give you on a day-to-day basis is what you actually needed all along.

Probably the most helpful response so far. Thanks for the time & effort you guys are putting into this thread. It's appreciated, really.

Like I said though, it's not like I'm not having sex. I am on a fairly regular basis, with the girl who I've been on & off with for the past 2 years. And before that, I was with another girl for 2 years. So I've definitely been in "real" relationships.

I don't agree with your assesment that I'm not having 'intimate' interactions just because I don't sleep with everyone though. Like I said, I've slept with a couple girls and the sex itself didn't change how I felt about them. *Shrugs. So I don't agree with you guys on that one. And it's not really fair to say that it's a "mirage" or whatever. You're not the ones living my life, I am. I'm fairly certain that I'm experiencing my own life a little more vividly than you are.

I can't rule out the divorce thing as a contributing factor, but it was a fairly recent thing (last couple of months) and I've had these issues for a long ass time.

As far as your girlfriend suggestion, I don't have the hours it would take to go through the last 3/4 years of my life, but look..I was with a girl for 2 years, from the time I was 18 to 20. I considered her my soulmate. These issues I'm dealing with destroyed our relationship and I've lost her forever. Nuff said. There's been another girl almost ever since. I love her, she loves me. She knows all of my issues better than anyone and she's hung around despite everything. She wants to be with me badly. I want to be with her too, but we tried putting the 'boyfriend' 'girlfriend' labels on it last summer, and after 2 weeks of feeling trapped, I freaked out and broke it off. We're still seeing eachother several times a week. It's not as easy as just getting a girlfriend who's gonna stick it out. I've got that girl, and I can't make it happen.

I agree that I could use some therapy, although I'm doubtful/suspicious that it will do any good. I am one seriously fucked up dude. Really the only thing I know how to do is pick up girls. And I can't stop doing it. I used to love it. I can't even say that anymore. I just can't stop.

(05-20-2011 03:13 AM)Jon Wrote:  Hmm, so my last reply was a bit harsh. I agree with what Mark said. I have one additional suggestion - try telling a girl exactly what you want before you are in a position to hook up with her. You might get more out of your interactions

That's okay Jon. Don't sweat it dude. I appreciate the honesty that you guys are responding with. But one thing I need to make clear: I ALWAYS make sure a girl knows what she's getting into before I get involved with her. I don't lie to girls. I don't bullshit them. It creates un-necessary headaches. They know I'm not going to committ to them, and they have the option whether to get involved or not anyway.