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Staying true to your own values and morals - 8_ball - 05-18-2011 04:15 AM
I just read a LR of j.T. Tran (former Asian Playboy) of ABC Attraction which kinda shocked me. It leads to the question, how much bullshit can you take from a girl and when you should staying true to your values and leave her, even that you could take her home.
Here is the LR (if you don´t wanna read the whole thing but get directly to the interesting part you can start reading from: "She says, "I'm not racist or anything, but I think you Asians are taking over our country!")
http://archive.aweber.com/abcs-attraction/1Vnx6/h/Lay_Report_I_m_not_RACIST.htm
Here are my and his comments on that.
8Ball: She is discriminating against you and your own people right in front of you, and you´re saying: " I had a great night with you" (although she bored you of your mind) and taking her home with you? Really? Sorry, but I can understand if a guy who is desperated with women left his morals and values behind and took her home. But I NEVER would have expected that from a PUA and specially not from a dating coach.
JT: I find that the vast majority of white people hold similar sentiments. They just don't verbalize it or instead couch it in political correctness. The point is to break her (and them) in one person at a time.
8Ball: As long as people keep their views for themselves and don´t do any kind of harm I don´t care about someone´s view. But when they do, I lose any interest in them.
And what do you mean with break her? By making out and taking her home you actually showed her, that it is not only okay to think like that, but also to mention it in front of people. If you had told her your opinion about that and left her, she would maybe think about her opinion, or at least not mention it next time in front of people.
JT: No, you can't change a woman's mind, but you can change her mood. I'm not going to sit there and talk POLITICS with a woman in the middle of a club. Now, she has a memory of having a pretty fun time, making out, feeling pretty with getting her picture taken like she was a celebrity, and being taken home. All positive experiences she now associates with Asian men. You don't sit around and try to "out-logic" someone out of their assumptions and preconceptions.
8Ball: Sure, I wouldn´t neither start a debate in a club, specially not with a woman with that kind of views. But if someone insults you or your people, specially in a racist way, it´s important imo to show that you don´t accept this behaviour.
And I don´t think, because she had a great evening/night with you, she will change her view about ALL ASIAN men. She might think that you are an exception to the rule. I mean, how does hooking up with you change her mind whether asian people are taking the country over or not?
JT: "So in your view point, you would react NEGATIVELY to when presented with that. Sorry, I've run into this enough times and gotten defensive about it as you would have and seen it to be a failure in tactics. That's just keyboard jockeying and mental masturbation on what you THINK might work. Instead you either completely ignore it and eject, which is completely valid if you don't want to be around it, or ignore and and respond with a positive action and push through. This is field tested and not some theoretical after school special."
8Ball: "Yes, I would have reacted negatively and eject, because I would not have been interested in this girl any more.
Please, this has nothing to do with KJing or mental masturbation. This about having your values and morals holding to them, even if you want get laid. You said yourself, that you thought: "White girl, please", meaning that you know she is talking completly racist bullshit. Still you escalated. By doing this you set imo the girl above your values (besides being incongruent). Yes, you got laid. But have you been honest to yourself? Imo, no."
What do you guys think about that?
Btw, I am not sure if he was serious on the comments or if he just wants to justify his lay, since it was a pretty good marketing move on the PU event.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Mark - 05-18-2011 04:46 AM
Ugh... really sums up why I'm trying to distance myself from that whole movement. I agree with your perspective 100%.
Quote:JT: I find that the vast majority of white people hold similar sentiments. They just don't verbalize it or instead couch it in political correctness. The point is to break her (and them) in one person at a time.
As a white person, I find this offensive.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - 8_ball - 05-18-2011 04:54 AM
(05-18-2011 04:46 AM)Mark Wrote: Ugh... really sums up why I'm trying to distance myself from that whole movement. I agree with your perspective 100%.
Quote:JT: I find that the vast majority of white people hold similar sentiments. They just don't verbalize it or instead couch it in political correctness. The point is to break her (and them) in one person at a time.
As a white person, I find this offensive.
I was indeed, too. But I didn´t want to start a discussion about racism on facebook, my point on the comments was just about the value thing.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Mark - 05-18-2011 05:14 AM
What I find funny is he's still operating in the paradigm of what "works" and what doesn't "work" on a girl like this. It's not about what works... it's about recognizing that sex with a dumb racist cunt is probably not worth compromising your own values, no matter how hot she is...
The irony of course, is the second that you do tell a girl like this that she's a dumb racist cunt, 9 times out of 10 she ends up wanting to fuck you even more. But hey... I guess I'm just a keyboard jockey.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Jon - 05-18-2011 05:18 AM
Jesus that's disappointing. J.T. seems to think that you are saying that a better way to have gotten her to bed would be to call her out on being a racist. I don't think he is actually conscious of the fact that maybe you can sometimes preserve your dignity by not having sex with a woman.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - equilibrium - 05-18-2011 05:18 AM
(05-18-2011 04:15 AM)8_ball Wrote: Please, this has nothing to do with KJing or mental masturbation. This about having your values and morals holding to them, even if you want get laid. You said yourself, that you thought: "White girl, please", meaning that you know she is talking completly racist bullshit. Still you escalated. By doing this you set imo the girl above your values (besides being incongruent). Yes, you got laid. But have you been honest to yourself? Imo, no."
Since he didn't specify or define his own values, I'm not sure that he violated them.
Lots of people would place "dispute people who say racist things about your heritage" above "get laid" in their hierarchy of values. I consider that reasonable. However, JT never claimed that his values were in this order. Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.
Not saying he's right or wrong here - just that I didn't see him going against his own value system.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Jon - 05-18-2011 05:22 AM
(05-18-2011 05:18 AM)equilibrium Wrote:(05-18-2011 04:15 AM)8_ball Wrote: Please, this has nothing to do with KJing or mental masturbation. This about having your values and morals holding to them, even if you want get laid. You said yourself, that you thought: "White girl, please", meaning that you know she is talking completly racist bullshit. Still you escalated. By doing this you set imo the girl above your values (besides being incongruent). Yes, you got laid. But have you been honest to yourself? Imo, no."
Since he didn't specify or define his own values, I'm not sure that he violated them.
Lots of people would place "dispute people who say racist things about your heritage" above "get laid" in their hierarchy of values. I consider that reasonable. However, JT never claimed that his values were in this order. Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.
Not saying he's right or wrong here - just that I didn't see him going against his own value system.
But the point is
1) people take "inner game" advice from validation-junkies like that guy, and
2) he doesn't even seem to realize that there's another system of values 8_ball might even have.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Jon - 05-18-2011 05:26 AM
(05-18-2011 05:14 AM)Mark Wrote: The irony of course, is the second that you do tell a girl like this that she's a dumb racist cunt, 9 times out of 10 she ends up wanting to fuck you even more. But hey... I guess I'm just a keyboard jockey.
Also true. I had a friend who was in a cab with this girl, who was being very rude to the cab driver, and when my friend told her to "stop being such an entitled bitch" she spent the rest of the night, (and a few more days after) trying to bone him. He felt a bit guilty about using the word "bitch" but then was also pretty revolted by her response to the whole thing.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Mark - 05-18-2011 05:30 AM
(05-18-2011 05:18 AM)equilibrium Wrote: Maybe getting laid matters more to him than telling off a girl for being racist.
Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it?
When you prioritize getting laid over everything else in your life, you end up with... well, dumb racist girls.
To his credit, he does say ejecting if you don't want to put up with it is fine.
RE: Staying true to your own values and morals - Mark - 05-18-2011 05:35 AM
Hah... this is weird, the more I think about this, the more I'm sympathizing with JT, which is weird, because my first reaction was pretty bad as well.
But if I was talking to a girl who I knew I had absolutely no interest in past a one night stand, I could see myself glossing over something like this. It's a choose your battles type thing. If all you want is to bang her and then never call her, then it makes sense to just ignore it. If you're screening for anything beyond a ONS though, it's pretty stupid to not say anything.
There was actually a very hot girl a few months ago in Texas who was young (19) and as dumb as a door stop. But I just ignored all the stupid stuff she said and ended up going home with her. I knew I was never going to talk to her again, and that's what made me decide it was worth it. I just wanted to bang her.
I guess this is what you were getting at equilibrium. And I guess this is me throwing him a bone. Assuming he was going for the ONS (which I imagine he was), then I guess it's fine... I think he needs to make that clear though, because I don't think newbies recognize the difference in process between gaming for a ONS and gaming for a girlfriend.